My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by mikepaul

whitecamaross...It's like i said before ,i love the MartinLogan sound, but the Focal Sopra 3 left an impression on me.

It sounded "unboxy".    That's a rarity for me.   Usually i can't get past the cone driver setup.

If i went "box", Sopra 3 would be under my roof for sure.

And i wouldn't look back.

mikepaul




the ultimate compliment to a box speaker is "they almost sound electrostatic"

does that tell ya something.????? hello?

with cone drivers,you have to pay a hell of a lot of more money to "sound like a electrostatic speaker" .

the current martin logan line will kill any box speaker.  hey, some people enjoy 2nd tier stuff ( at exorbitant prices). not my problem.


and the neolith will make xtra-large paperweights out of all box speakers.

end of speaker journey.
getting back to amps, i wish some nice top of the line mono's from ARC were reviewed here. i know WC  had the GS stereo amp...but ..just saying..

personally, high power tube amps are a different animal on many levels compared to solid state.    resale being one.   heat, tube life, roll-off etc.... i don't know if i could ever feel comfortable enough to spend big bucks on one...but i have always been tempted.

they always sound very nice (different?) in the showrooms
Hey guys, aside from  amplifier influence,all things being equal....

-What speaker comes to mind that is smooth,warm..yet super detailed and transparent?

My head is spinning by all the speaker shuffling in this thread.

Has whitecamaross mentioned this "jack of all trades" yet?

Is this recipe his goal?

I realize it always comes down to personal taste ( and influenced by other components)

When I auditioned the Sopra 3's I thought they touched on multiple sonic characteristics.

I love my Martin-Logans 13a's , but I wouldn't call them "warm". 

Like they say.  In high end audio , usually sacrifices must made.



Just sayin'/askin'


....and I would like whitecamaross's comparison of martin logan 13a's and focal sopra 3
I love this thread.  I wish I didn't put together my system over the last 2 years before I came across this great thread...

I would have liked to have purchased from a reputable seller--whitecamaross--

And I would have acquired top notch stuff I could I only have dreamed about.

Oh well, the games' not over yet.
r1oster...I have NO DOUBT about that. I think the focal -simaudio combo looks like a winner..( i have heard both, but not in unison).....if i was just building my system the check might be in the mail already...but...

very tempting, but,presently, i am backed into a corner. like i said, the games not over ...down the road...who knows???

I am losing track: Have you guys mentioned this speaker: Paradigm Persona 9H?

Tremendous reviews, especially from the Tone Audio article I pasted.

Very interesting read. I really can relate to Jeff Dorgay’s reviews.

He also loves the "car comparisons" to audio stuff.. much like WC.

Please give it a read if you can and post your comments.

Maybe some of you have heard this already?

thanks

mike
https://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_085.pdf






maplegrovemusic,...ok.thanks...i hope he gets around to them..i will audition them later this week.

i've had martin logans for years and i am addicted to the sound.

i am intrigued for sure

mikepaul
RIAA...Which ARC stereo amp might be close to the performance of the mac 2300 monos?
thanks dep14...i always wondered how much influence my amp had on the sound produced by the woofers.

yes i use the ARC.  the room correction is a definite plus for sure.

mikepaul
Does anyone ever just pick up a record, drop the stylus  and sit back and enjoy a song?..without critiquing your system?

..i didn't think so.     

  i sure  don't.      wish i did.    wish i could.

the curse of the audiophile. 




WC, i'm not stirring anything up. i enjoy this hobby..to a fault for sure.

my wife can watch standard definition tv and not blink an eye.

 she can listen to a boom box and dance and enjoy the music.

me?

if it ain't OLED  HD and high end audio gear then i ain't watchin' or listenin'.... 

honestly, back as a teen when i discovered my first stereophile magazine i became obsessed in trying to hear the music that i loved the best way that i could.

i think a lot of us took the same path. 


browndt...so,tell us about your system?  especially the tt ,cart and pho-pre
Question to all: My speakers contain self-powered woofers (Martin-Logan 13A),

Does the system amplifier actually impose it’s qualities on the actual bass output?

Or just the mids and highs?

whitecamaross has mentioned over and over on the impact that an amp has on bass.

But what actually happens in my case?

Would I actually benefit from a more refined,less powerful amp? Instead of one with more brute force?

Just thinking of upgrades down the road. My current amp is a Krell Duo 300 used with an ARC REFF6

thanks guys.

mikepaul


mr d, as we are all audiophiles it is tough to "listen to the music and not dissect the equipment" 

BUT, it is very enjoyable to listen to our favorite music and proudly acknowledge the system we painstakingly pieced together.

hence,        the journey.
In my universe, one day I would like to see how an AudioResearch 150SE might sound in my system. Tempting. Very tempting. Right now,I use a REF6 and a Krell amp with MartinLogan 13a's. 

I am a believer in ARC technology especially after I was gobsmacked by the REF6 after I replaced my other preamp (Audible Illusions M3B). 

 whitecamaross mentioned that he might try the new ARC REF160M monos one day and he did find the MAC tube 2301 quite enjoyable. 

Hmmmn. One day,one day.
WHITECAMAROSS...PLEASE! NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!!

The thread is still good. We do not have the right to push you to spend money ( just to keep a thread going?!?!?!?). Please,go at your own pace and believe me, we will be there with you.

Plus, it’s always good to rehash some of the stuff you had already. Although you are concentrating on super high end stuff, some people, like myself, are very much interested in stuff you covered waaaay back when. I already asked you many times about certain pieces and it is helping me formulate my next move.

Thanks again for bringing us all together to talk some shop!
whitecamaross, I think down the road you will run the REF10 with top ARC monos. Like you said: synergy.

My only reservation regarding a tube-amp purchase-- , as my friend in Boynton Beach says, ---is the massive heat from his BAT tube mono amps.

No joke, and I quote, "Mike, when I listen to my tube set-up,I literally have to put on a pair of shorts and a tank top and turn the A/C all the way up. But it sounds so great!"

He also has a solid state set-up which he mostly uses during the summer months. Natch!
Hey guys, FYI---5th Annual Rocky Mountain International Audio Fest (RMAF) 2018

OCT 5-7...check out the reports and videos from this event. 

Wish I could have been there.

I wouldn't be surprised if some gear from this audio show will be diagnosed in the future on this forum.

Maybe whitecamaross is there now? Ya never know!


WC,
take it one step further.

Your top three systems so far: -----amp,preamp speakers
riaa...what was your impression of the 160’s?

(aside from the 50 yard trek with them)
i wonder how this-------->Dan D'Agostino Master Audio Systems Progression Monoblock: $38,000/pair--paired with your ARC REF10,      would compare to the D'AG INTEGRATED($45,000)?



Hhmmmmmm.  Doesn't sound like Logans...too close to back and side walls.

I don't know anything about their placement but i will warrant my guess for the heck of it:

======YG ACOUSTICS?

And if subs are involved with a smaller type of speaker then my guess would be:

====== (2) SVS PB16-Ultra Subwoofers------175 lbs each

DISCLAIMER: I am not an advocate of subs. I prefer to find a "full range" ,"complete" speaker which satisfies most of my listening requirements---- and do without the subterranean lows.

Hey,wait!  My brand new 15a's that i just traded in my 13a's for actually fulfill my requirements!

D'uh...lol
Hey, now that you mentioned it.

Let me check my garage. Maybe there's a 718 Cayman buried under some old clothes.  lol,

WC, I can't wait for your first impressions of the D'ag
WC has got to have a vintage dynaco amp in the attic for sure.

Right next to the Honus Wagner – $2.8 Million  baseball card
WC, we are not starting trouble. Havin’ a ’lil fun. Just passing time waiting for your reports!!

Can’t wait!

tjassoc i have a Meridian 508.24 and 808.3...

nice to see someone enjoying Meridian sound.
Congrats whitecamaross,

I have owned various Martin-Logan models for decades. I have the 15A's now. 

I,personally,have never come across a conventional speaker (or Magnepans) that could take the place of Martin-Logans in my listening room.  Especially in similar price ranges.

They have an addicting sound I will never let go of. 

You might have reached the pinnacle in your speaker search with the NEOLITHS.

I have never heard them ,so, as a lifelong fan of this brand I am especially looking forward to this review.

All the best!

ENJOY!

Weight 385 lbs.

Low Frequency Transducer== Rear: 15” ,Front: 12”

High Frequency Transducer== » Panel Dimensions 48" x 22" 

» Radiating Area 1056 in² 


This,my friends, is ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER    VS   Anyone Else on stage back in his prime.


Over two years and four thousand responses in the making!


I believe whitecamaross said a Wednesday delivery. Then,hopefully by Friday we will get a full report after a lengthy setup and listening sessions.

It's not often an audiophile gets to enjoy some of the greatest pieces our hobby has to offer and I truly wish him a super awesome experience.

I wish I lived next door!!!!

But I am grateful to share WC's experiences and thoughts these last few years!


As Arnold must have said,  "I'm Pumped"!




I believe that whitecamaross hinted this already but not only will the Neoliths will be utterly satisfying musically ,they will be the ultimate reference tool to analyze and judge each individual piece of equipment upstream.

Especially AMPS.
whitecamaross, nice preliminary review.

My assumption is that :   

1) you are astounded that an integrated amp can sound as good or better than some ultra high end separates.

2) you got a taste of D'AG and want more.

...which,of course,leads to the end game.....>>>>>>>

3a)  if a D'AG integrated is amazing.....then.....the mission is to find out how good are D'AG separates ?!?!? 

3b)  purchase more D'AG.........

.....natch