Something that I have noticed with interconnects (XLR/RCA) and speaker wire is that SILVER can be too much of a good thing, and brings out more treble and makes it brighter. I'm still a believer in COPPER with silver soldering at connections. To me, the sound is fuller. And it brings back a bit of the analog balance to a system, especially using digital files. Too bright a sound is just not the way the artist has intended for you to hear their music.
Currently I am using Morrow Audio MA5 XLRs (mid level) and Morrow Audio MA5 SPIDF from my Tascam CD Transport. I feed USB from an Audioquest Diamond cable (15ft) to a USB Bridge (femto clock system) Singxer SU-1. The Singxer SU-1 is a very much needed upgrade for USB coming from a computer. My connection from the USB Bridge to the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC is thru AES/EBU (also Audioquest Diamond cable). I cannot over stress how much the USB Bridge Singxer SU-1 opens up the sound with superior femto clocks. Took my system up the audiophile chain in spades. I see many of the top DACs now with a Femto Clock system box ahead of the actual DAC itself. The stuff just is a game changer.
Now speaker cables are something that I want to explore in the future. Currently I'm using 8 gauge twisted and stranded OFC Copper cables that I have terminated myself. I have used these cables for many applications in the past, and find that the strong current of my Krell amps mate quite well. I have seen speaker cables overheat with not enough gauge. Within the next 6 months, I am going to try the Morrow Audio speaker cables. They are many strands of thin insulated solid copper wire. Depending on your budget, you can get 432 solid copper wires Morrow Audio SP5, or for some more cash 864 solid copper wires (SP7 model). Once broken in, the sound is up there with the expensive cables. There are also Grand Reference and 10 year anniversary models of this solid core insulated copper for the large wallet types.
I'm hoping that the speaker cable upgrade may bring up another notch of great sound. I just love Morrow Audio XLRs, I can tell you that they are perfect for my system. Worth a shot at under $500 for a pair with their coupon and a set of old cables that I would send to them for a lot of money off.
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I'm in total agreement with taking out the resonance of a piece of equipment. My Schiit Freya tube preamp is improved a lot with putting it on spikes. Now solid as a rock, keeping the 4 tubes and electronics without vibration. Also as mrdecibel has described, good power supplies and discreet components are tantamount to having a solid analog output. I have the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 Preamp/DAC. And there is a power supply upgrade (Alchemy PS5 $599). The thing weighs 9 pounds, and is a game changer. Here is an explanation of what a good power supply can do (Alchemy PS5). There's no denying the importance of a properly designed power supply circuit. "Inside the PS-5 are two separate, regulated power supplies: one for
analog circuits, the other for digital and control circuits, which
provide each the unique power qualities required to maximize their
performance. These discrete supplies are routed into the DDP-1
(DAC/Preamp/Headphone Amp) through a special multi-pin connector on the
rear of the unit for easy connectivity. Additionally, the AC-to-DC
conversion is performed inside the PS-5 to prevent interference with the
sensitive analog audio circuits inside the DDP-1. A balanced supply
with separate analog and digital/control feeds, separate positive and
negative rails for analog circuits, and large banks of storage
capacitors for better filtering and improved dynamics." In reference to the RANE EQ.... I think that EQ works. Some systems will sound dramatically better, and be absolutely necessary with some rooms. You could have all the best equipment, but the room or synergy of components are holding you back. A good EQ will bring the music to how it was intended to be, and it will be wonderful. I personally prefer an analog EQ like the RANE over digital EQ. I have not tested the
miniDSP SHD Series, but it could be a game changer for DSP. I know that the company is at the bleeding edge of DSP technology. Here is a link https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-seriesHope this helps. Not everyone has the perfect room.
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Just finished eating Turkey Day dinner. Can't move. Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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Nice to see you have the placement of the Neolith improved. Very similar spacing to my Montis ESLs. Once you get it right, OMG.
I can only imagine how some serious current is going to make things even more real. Cheers. |
@riaa
I just was thinking of the tone controls. I do BELIEVE that the AR Reference 10 is one of the best out there. But I was thinking of how much better WCSS got the sound with some bass and treble adjustment. That's all. If it was my money, I would never sell the AR 10, and hold onto it. Even if I was to buy the D'ag preamp. I don't have these models to test, so it is all speculation. You could very well have the experience of seeing in real life the usage of these components. I have a setup that allows for tubes when I want it, and have passive or JFET output instead. I run the tubes 90% of the time. But the sound at the other outputs are just as lethal coming out the speakers. Depending on recordings, passive may bring much more transparency. So it is an art, no matter what trail you choose. Is there a right or wrong path? Most of the time yes. Other times, it's just preference.
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Here is my take on what could work very well with the Neolith speaker......
You have an integrated with no preamp output that has tone controls. So eventually, if you want to explore the additional power from some monoblocks, you could sell the AR Reference 10, and get a D'ag preamplifier. This would give you the tone controls that are making for some subtle adjustments that make the system sound better. I think the D'ag preamp will blow away any other preamp with tone controls, and probably blow away just about any preamp out there. So it would make a hell of a lot of sense to get a D'ag preamp.
The D'ag Progression monoblocks are more powerful than the Momemtums. Progression has a 3,000 VA Transformer, 48 output transistors, and 400,000 power supply storage capacitance. This is the real amp design that Dan's Krell division stood strong as having all the available current to get any speaker load to shine. These Progression Monoblocks are going to fill the instruments with a more realistic representation than any other amplifier design out there. Being stable down to just about any Ohm, and having a power station like of reserve power will bring home the best sound possible. Are they worth it to buy them new? I think so. I'm sure the resale value will be at the top of the "for sale' chain. But the fact that Dan has so much time with designing these behemoth amplifiers, I feel that they would be such an asset to the Neoliths. My Krell KSA-200S that I'm using right now has a 2,800 VA Transformer. When I stepped up from my smaller Krell KST-100 to the Krell KSA-200S, I was floored as to how the instruments would fill themselves in. The music wasn't just louder, the realism of everything fill up like blowing up a baloon. Mind blowing improvement.
This is what type of amps you need to get 'er done. Peroid. And the Momemtum Preamp could be the gateway to getting the sound just right. $34k for the Momentum preamp, and 38k for the Progression Monoblocks. For the money, I think you would be hard pressed to find a better combination. And you can also test all the amplifiers you want after buying the D'ag preamp. You could recoup some money by selling the D'ag integrated and the AR Reference 10. Summing up........ you would be making a major step for not too much money. Wew!! That was a lot. But this is what this guy thinks.
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@MrDYou're right. Forgot about that one. The integrated amps don't seem to be able to have enough power for such a large speaker. I personally love tube preamps with solid state Class A amplifiers running balanced XLRs.
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Testing a bunch of amps are going to be a good way to see what's up with the Neoliths. Your on your 2nd now. Just imagine how much fun it will be to try some others. The Neolith can deliver. You know now that testing some new ones will get you more clarity on who is the winner. My God though, you have the ESL that we mostly can dream about.
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It’s good to see you getting great sound without tone controls. The original formula of trying out different amps now show promise. I feel like such an a-- now that I had thought that there was some kind of design flaw in the Neolith (that it wasn’t giving you what you know it’s capable of).
Suggestion.... Didn’t you really like the SimAudio Moon amps? I’m not familiar with their sound, but I think you mentioned that they really were fantastic. And at a lot of shows they are used with many speakers. The Moon 880 monoblocks look so well built, and have 1600w/ch @4 ohms.
I glad you are keeping these Neoliths for a while. There really hasn’t been anyone out there with them that has put numerous amps behind it. I don’t think you can find a better speaker to do this with. ESL panels are my favorite for music and realism. They don’t work for every type of music. But I don’t care. The reward of panels with most music is just next level. |
@Viber6,
I do like analog EQ a lot better than digital.
Spent over 40 years in the audiophile car stereo scene. Talk about some systems needing EQ, that's an understatement. I still found that using 2 analog EQs (one for front, and one for back speakers) yielded a much more full sounding system when dialed in.
Have used Pioneer’s head unit system with microphone very many times.... and the result did not hold a candle to dedicated analog EQs. I have built many car stereo systems without EQ, but that was just luck to get the sound perfect. It all comes down to what I find is digital degradation in that domain.
If your system is already full sounding, then allowing for some minor adjustments with an analog EQ...... you retain the full sound and don’t destroy it by using EQ. I would easily say that you could parlay that to 2 channel home stereo, and say that the minor adjustments are better served with an analog EQ. Only if needed. So there it is......
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I should have mentioned that using jumper cables of the same speaker cable is a good step up for better sound quality. It is a crapshoot that it will sound better. But one that I think is worth trying if you are looking to expand on the sound quality of a high power system. I personally have a cutoff with cables and pricing that I will endure. Money is sometimes better spent getting better main parts of an audio system.
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I LOVE the innards of those Block Audio Monoblocks. The design of them are quite "up my alley". What's the price tag of a pair new?
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It would make sense that 2 sets of wires are going to transmit more sound to the speaker. I think you can bi-wire with or without the straps that connect the two for a single speaker cable. I look at it this way. I use 8 gauge OFC braided wire to my speakers. I like this size of wire for speakers. Sometimes I see speaker wire that looks like it is not enough. So 2 sets of speaker wire technically should offer some kind of difference, especially at louder levels. I am not a bi-wire expert. I just use logic and give things a shot. Haven never bi-wired, but would like to. Especially with some speaker cables that I deem not enough wire for massive power amplifiers to feed into the speaker of choice. I can sure tell the difference when a speaker wire is choking, and sometimes that turns into heat that you can feel. OK. There is my take. Would love to try it sometime (bi-wire).
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Class D may be the future for some. But I still prefer Class A and it's smoothness. I had a very nice sounding Class D NuPrime STA-9 that worked well with my Martin Logan ESLs. I longed for more power...... but I realized that when I bought my 1st Krell, that Class A and some robust power reserves were just miles better. The NuPrime STA-9 did sound so pure with vocals and instruments though. So there is promise in Class D, and I will not just brush the design off my shoulders. I just find it inferior to the good Class A designs right now.
I see a lot of you mentioning digital eq or a digital front end integrated into systems. I still think an analog preamplifier works better and is needed for a good signal going to the amplifier.
But I would entertain testing a digital EQ with XLR input from the DAC, and then XLR out to the preamp. Sounds silly, I know, and I'm only going by knowledge of how I like to chain things to the amplifier. Same would go for placement of an analog EQ as well.
Get things right and no EQ is needed. I just don't like digital front ends, and for the most part direct from DAC passive volume controls. Transparency is good, but there is a trade off in fullness of the sound. It's sometimes too thin, and also sometimes looses the bass somewhat.
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Speaking of amplifiers.... I noticed some Audio Research REF 250s and a REF 750 at reasonable pricing. Some day trying a pair of these monoblocks may bring some of the sharp edges of digital music to listenable with less fatigue. Music tracks that would normally be an earsore would open up to a fully listenable experience.
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WCSS,
Sorry I wasn't trying to rush you on the AR amps. Silly me sometimes trolls the AR website looking at the goodies they produce. I get excited easily, as you can see!
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I didn't realize that you were using two different speaker cables. Oh my? I know people will call me crazy (which I could be), but I would still try 2 exact copies of the speaker cable of choice and leave the jumpers in. This will give you double the thickness of energy going thru to the speaker. Will it work? That's up to the fact that if the existing speaker cable is enough gauge transferring power to the speaker. Messing with sending one set to the bottom octaves and another set to the mid to upper octaves could show some type of improvement. I just think that you may be messing with something that the designer had not intended. The designer has not used all types of speaker cable when making these speakers So said effect on bi-wiring using the so-called "right way" may not help. It could hinder the sound field. The point I'm making is that for the most part.... speaker cables really need (IMO) some total gauge that runs close to 8 to 10 guage with a powerful amplifier. Doubling the energy coming to the speaker will not change the full range design, and could have a more powerful and full sounding speaker system. This point is argued with many in the high end audio world. I'm discussing with a cable designer from Morrow Audio quite a few times with his theory, and it is the same as mine. His cables get more insulated single core copper wires each time you go to another level. Having gone up a few levels.... the "sheet" works in a way that everything about the music is more realistic and fuller sounding, along with greater imaging.
A lot of silver with make for a different sound, compared to copper with some silver. Personally I like the sound of copper with some silver much better with my equipment. Money could be spent elsewhere for more sound improvement for the money. I remember when WCSS 1st tried out the Wireworld Platinum speaker cables and didn't like them as much as his existing Wireworld cables. To each is own with these cables that are priced so high that you could buy a car with them. If you can afford it, so be it. I'll take another car please for my driveway. Or darn, it's full already and going out into the street. Never enough cars.
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I knew that I was stirring the pot with my concept of keeping the jumpers in with a not true bi-wiring type of setup. As stated, I would say that exploring that route could not hurt. My principles have me balking at "true bi-wiring". I feel the designer of the speaker has built it for one speaker cable running into it. Otherwise, he would insist that you bi-wire it. I'm just a stubborn old man, and stuck in my ways. You can't hurt anything other than your pocket by running 2 sets of speaker cables and keeping the jumper in. And you could try them both ways and draw conclusions from that. I was just stating my opinion on the subject of how I would feel better about the change to 2 sets of speaker cables.
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@MrD,
In regard to the Morrow Audio cable change in design.....
I have quite a bit of their cables, and really liked the sound that they produced compared to others tried in my system. Call me impressed would be an understatement. After break-in, the Morrow Audio cables offered improvements that I would expect from cables costing 10x more. I have no inkling of changing them out for any cable, regardless of price or reputation. The cables bring it. And I have heard what proper synergy is with systems. I am skeptical in his new design of cables, and he wants all of us to buy his new ones. Having spent a large chunk of cash wiring most of my system with his older cables, I would feel better if he would have "loaner cables" with a deposit, to test out the new design. From my viewpoint..... I'm not sure what the sound is going to be like. But I don't feel that it is going to be better with the new diameters and cotton insulation. My system is so dialed right now, and haven't had to touch it in about a year.
I'm sure that I probably will cave next year and buy 2 sets of XLRs to find out what's up with the new tech. I believe in progress. It just has me butt hurt with all the praising I have given to the community about the Morrow Audio company's wire design. Then everything is completely changed with the design philosophy. Can you feel my anguish?
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I'm wondering if there are any thoughts on Kimber Cable speaker wire. Going back to the seventies, these things were in the showrooms. It's the TC Series that I wanted to get some feedback on. Kimber Cable 8TC and 12TC are affordable, but as of 2018, I don't hear of anyone using them with their systems anymore, and forums have said that they accent the mid-high regions. That would make me uncomfortable.
It's been years for me since I have made a speaker cable change. I won't spend over $700 for a pair of 8ft speaker cables. I find the whole speaker cable industry confusing. Ridiculous pricing is abound. Hell if I'm gonna pay huge money for a wire.
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I know the last couple of days have been discussion of speaker cables. I've been using the same stranded and twisted 8 guage OFC copper cables with some silver content for the last 7 years. Just put fresh terminations on them a year ago. I have an opinion that speaker cables don't hold as much as a factor as Interconnect Cables.
Let's talk about XLR Interconnects. They are important to get the right sound with each system. There is a difference in sound that is very noticeable with XLRs when using high end equipment. Back in the day when I was designing systems for customers, I would have at least 6 to 10 pairs of cables for preamp to amp connection. At the time they were not so expensive (in the hundreds). But I could find a brand of cable that would bring the system to sound like it should. My favorite cables were in 2 sets of them. 2nd set for the source to have them wired as well. The sound, once tailored to a favorable cable setup, is VERY IMPORTANT to dial in the system. Of course, these are subtle adjustments, but they can take a system from pretty good to Godlike. Don't think that you're favorite cable will be just as good with another amp/preamp as it was with your existing one. It just might be. But it could not me the best for that equipment. It's sure would be nice if you had a dealer around to get a loaner with a deposit. Even better, just a loaner cause you're such a nice person (ha ha),
The market for interconnects these days has put the pricing for cables in the realm of a "snake oil" proposition. Not for nothing, but some spend so much cash on cord and cables..... and to what gain?
It's hard to find anyone that tests out a large amount of reasonably priced cables these days, and the design philosophy of said cables is from Mars sometimes. Getting back to my point...... XLRs and RCAs as well make a huge difference in sound. Now I know some think Power Cords are more important. I don't feel that way personally. I'll leave the Power Cords issue for another day. Just remember that you could go to better speakers or a more powerful amplifier with some of the pricing of these pieces of wire. But WIRE DOES MATTER.
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@dep14,
Looks like you have a perfect room size for sound. With you treatments, you should have 10 times more of a chance of good sound than most. I also got lucky and now have a room that will bring the best out of a system, and is treated to minimize any reflections that may throw the sound out of whack. I have a slight problem now with adding a 55" TV above my Stone Fireplace. I could tell instantly the added reflection of the TV. Is is bad? Not really, but noticeable. My fix will be some type of tapestry like thin cloth that I can put in front of it when playing music. With the ability to pull it up and down it like a Venetian blind. It’s not really that hard to retrofit a bamboo blind assembly to a cloth one. Even a high end bamboo blind would probably dampen it enough. Not having a TV above the fireplace for over a year allowed for the realization of the reflection of sound off a TV with electrostatic speakers. With standard piston type speakers, the reflection is negligible. This is just a shout out to electrostatic owners. It will make a difference if some type of cloth cover is on the TV in the middle of the speakers. The back wall behind the speakers should have some kind of damping. There are many ways to do it for cheap with some creative ideas.
I have not personally heard the Martin Logan 15A, but it is the pinnacle of ESL design for the near future. The combination of woofers and panel with ARC room correction will bring a sound that will be better in many ways than conventional speakers. I have the smaller Montis. It gets the job done quite nice. But it lacks in the "full sound" department. Were talking the type of full sound that lacks "nothing" in it’s presentation. JBL Pro series has a full sound, and is a reference for rock music. Does it have the imaging, detail and godlike realism to the nth degree? No. The ML 15A will take you most of the way there, but not quite. There is an easy fix for that. One of the biggest secrets in audio is the "REL effect". Add 2 REL S Series subwoofers and it will transform just about any speaker into a new one. REL is not about adding bass, but it does that too. The REL design just adds fullness to your existing speakers when setup in stereo with their unique "Speakon connection" to the terminals of your amplifier. This connection matches the signature of the amplifier and the RELs hit in unison with your speakers. Your speakers will sound so much fuller and more involving. Like in the order of a few magnitudes better. Don’t take it from me, there have been many with 100k speakers and added a pair of RELs. For the price of admission, they were all floored with the sound improvement.
So my recommendation to have the Martin Logan ESL speaker owners. Just the speaker itself is not enough. Adding 2 RELs in stereo setup, and having them on the inside or outside ends or just a little bit behind your main speakers will make them giant killers. I just turn off one REL in my system and realize that it is just not enough. Turn on the 2nd one and life is good. And I mean SOTA good with the proper amplification behind the Martin Logans. The amp is also the difference between good sound and GREAT SOUND. Amps that double in power for 8 ohms to 4 ohms is going to give you such a leg up on what your Martin Logans really should sound like.
Laying out a considerable amount of cash to accomplish the brass ring in sound is usually reserved for men later on in life. Is is right or wrong to want to get to the pinnacle of sound? It’s either in your blood or not, to be frank. There are quite a few choices out there in the 25k speaker range. A lot also rides on the fact if you can blast it in your sound room or not. Some speakers just absolutely kick a-- at low levels. Some do it all. I am very fortunate at this time that I can blast the living crap out of my system without having someone chasing me with an axe. I just love Martin Logans. But I have JBL Pro Series 3 for shits and giggles with rock. Most of the music I listen to is better with Martin Logan. I can reproduce the sound that any of the best clubs I have been in on the East Coast. Getting close to 4000 watts peak total with my system shooting out club music is just magical on a Friday night. Earlier in the day I’m listening to female vocalists at lower levels with the same life lifting sound that we all long for. Martin Logan and RELs win the chess game for me. Enough said.
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It's always a good idea to have your equipment warm up for 1/2 hour to an hour every time you listen.
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Sound aside, the Block Audio Mono is an absolute marvel of build quality and components. I'm glad the sound reproduction is matching the components inside. It should only get better with time.
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I'm curious as to how you heard about Block Audio Monos. They are from the Czech republic, and pretty much a new face in the European audio market. Amazing on how they took a look at the SOTA in amps and preamps and then proceeded to build equipment on the side of "Best of the Best". Would love to hear about how you came across Block Audio. Thanks.
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Go ESLs!! Neolith could be in the same company of Magico and Wilson. We are starting to find out. Fact is.... you don't know what WCSS is hearing now. I don't feel for a second that WCSS is not listening to one of the best speakers available for the price. They just need some real good electronics and cable matching to realize their potential. The look of them is just so stunning as well. I can't overemphasize how excited I am. Being an electrostatic believer and fanboy, I'm very happy WCSS has bit the bullet and bought them.
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@notesaddict
I have heard nothing but good stuff about the Don Sachs preamp. Using (4) 6SN7 tubes and rave reviews. I only wish that Don could put balanced out (XLRs) into the design. I have the Schiit Freya, and it has the (4) 6SN7 tubes as well, but I heard that it doesn't produce the fine sound of the Don Sachs. I would love to own one some day. And I'm also a Krell guy. I can only imagine the improvement in sound I would get with Don Sachs preamp.
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My take on power cords....
Power cords are something that need to transfer power from the outlet. The power cords quality of copper is important, and so is the gauge for power amplifiers. What is a safe gauge for amplifier cords drawing a full 20 amps? 10 to 12 guage is enough, but you can buy power cords 7 gauge. The connectors just have to be designed to get the full power of the cable to the amplifier. Makes me wonder why there are power cords that are audiophile cords. The audiophile cords come up with some science that allow the company to charge crazy money. Seems to me that there are just filters built into the cable to change the sound. The designers of amplifiers want the best pure AC power thru copper to come into their powerful amplifiers. And then the amplifier takes care of that power. The best amp designs store enough power inside the amp, and don't stress the power cord at all. Does this wonderful amplifier want filtered power going into the amp from the wall? I would think not. But every amplifier you see at the shows have cables that cost as much as some equipment. I'm not saying that these cables don't change the sound, compared to a good standard cable design. What I'm saying is that these audiophile cables are filtering the sound before it hits the amplifier. This, in itself should not be what the amplifier is looking for. Now this is just an opinion from someone that believes in cables. Just not these $2,000 or more Power Cables. I call these audiophile cables a way of coloring the sound before reaching the amplifier.
Now the most important that you can do for your system is 2 dedicated 20 amp lines put into your sound room with quality outlets. The difference in sound will be amazing with the amplifier on one circuit, and the rest on the other 20 amp line. If you want the electrician to put Romex 10/3 wiring, you can have a bit of reserve power with Monoblock amps. The dedicated power lines are the best expense you can make. If you have funky power in your town, that you can try some of the high end power stations out there. I would take this advice on where to put your money. My workstation for my computer systems use a number of Uninterruptible Power Supplies (UPS) to get the AC power to sine wave levels. I used to live in a place where there were brownouts like mad. Now I live where the power grid doesn't overload. But any spikes or drops with computer equipment will wear your equipment out. And having battery backup when doing mission critical work on the computer is just as important as backup. But for my stereo system I use AVRs (automatic voltage regulators) for all the equipment other than the amplifier. I calculate how much power draw I want from each AVR and add the amount of them I deem using no more than 40% of the AVRs power envelope. Currently I use 2 of them from APC. They cost around $70 each and are so worth it to make sure there are no voltage drops or spikes going into your expensive equipment. Do you see how cheap these AVRs are? If it was an audiophile item, it would be $2,000. I can only say use your head when spending money. Just an example...... instead of expensive power cords..... get yourself a good streamer, or a better DAC.
I am not an authority on Power Cords. I just know the science, and have grown up with a Dad that was a wiring genius. I also spent 40 years myself in the industry of audio and being a moonlighting electrician with my Dad. He was an engineer for General Motors. We were wiring and building just about anything you could dream of. It just doesn't make sense to throw all that cash to go along with the audiophile community. It's a high quality copper wire going into the amp that is all it should be.
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WC, I have to say that if aftermarket Power Cables are going to be bought, you have chosen the one that I would get. Seems very popular and good luck with these 6 guage behomoths. I like the pure copper connectors, too!
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WC, I'm very interested in your conclusions on these power cords. I am a believer in high end copper at a large gauge. EMI/RFI filtering could be a plus, if done right.
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I'm with WC on length of time before these cords sound their best. Not to say that cords don't settle over time, but Shunyata claims that their cord is already broken in due to their technology.
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WC, You haven't mentioned if your system (without those ridiculously expensive power cables) has taken you to the next level in sound. Is there something missing? Or are you looking for changes in sound to see if there is something else that will tickle the Neoliths more? Those Block Audio Monoblocks in Class A should be at the top of the chain in terms of what that speaker needs. I know you mentioned Solid State Preamplifiers. But what about going the other way and having a preamp with tubes that are more on the tube side than the AR Ref 10? I'm just curious as to your logic on this. Not to say that the sound will be "off" with a solid state preamplfier, but it would make for a slightly harder presentation. You don't know unless you try. What about the Luxman preamp? On the tube side, I'm not an authority on what is best. With a week or so of listening to you're existing system, do you think it needs change?
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WC, I didn't want to upset you with my question of what you want to get out of your system.
I think I wanted to hear that.....
The Block Audios are your reference for now as an amplifier. And get other amps to compare them to. I'm glad that your are talking about keeping them. AR Reference 10 is also a great reference preamplifier.
I'm also trying to extract more of what you have been hearing, now that you have possibly one of the best systems I could possibly ever dream of owning.
The Block Audio Preamp is just WOW. Could make for better sound. If it were me, the Block Audio preamp would be on the audition list without question. Sorry, once again if I made you mad.
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Sounds like the Titan will be able to stretch it's legs and pound those Neoliths. Great stuff. I'm also a believer that not all DACs sound the same. Good luck with your new ideas and always looking foward as to what your doing next.
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WC, Thanks for the pics of those monstrous speakers and amplifiers. Holy Moly. The Neoliths are way bigger than I thought. And those Block Audio amps are looking good between those Godzillas. Merry Christmas.
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WC, referring to your wanting of a new DAC. Has anyone mentioned the EMM Labs DA2? It is from Ed Meitner, the designer of SACD and DSD. The DA2 is at the same price point of the other ones you are looking at. His technology for this unit is unlike any other. He manufactures his own DAC and it runs at DSD1024, 16 times a single DSD stream. I would ask your guys about this one. I know MSB is supposed to be best, but this is one that you should probably talk to some others about.
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Those new pics are great! I remember reading about all that equipment. Those Neoliths are just incredible, compared to the other speakers. And I see you are pointing them now less toed-in than the initial setting. I think that was really needed to get that 3D Holographic sound you are getting now. You are such a stoker WC.
I, of course have a couple of suggestions..... but I will start with just one at a time.
I have a Microsoft Surface clone that I have on a glass and aluminum end table that fits the laptop right next to me. It is a touchscreen, and I don't have the keyboard connected, So basically, I can sit there and control my Music or Tidal. I bought an Audioquest USB 12ft cord initially, and it was just a little short to me. So I bought one of the better Audioquest USB cords at 5 meters (15ft), and it had more than enough length to reach my equipment. After hearing from a Doctor that does Medical Imaging... he has tested many USB cables at 5 meters, and the better Audioquests are the best and most reliable for getting the proper signal at that length. Many cables he tested, would not work with his Medical equipment reliably. So a proper 5 meter cable will allow you to have a touchscreen tablet like the Surface Pro or a clone of one right next to your listening chair. I found no loss in sound quality with a longer length like this.
I use the Singxer SU-1 USB Bridge, with the 5 meter USB cord from the laptop going into it. It has some serious Femto clocks that clean up the signal and it's output to the DAC is AES/EBU. If you have a DAC that is SOTA, it is probably not going to improve the sound. But with just about any other DAC, the sound improvement is due to the Femto clocks in the Singxer SU-1 providing a better job with USB input than the USB on the DAC itself. The improvement is astonishing, and it allows you to use a Computer instead of one of those units like the
Aurender N100H.
Hope this helps. It must be a pain to get up to change the songs.
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WC,
If it were me.... I would put full length heavy drapes on side and back walls. It would be just like a theater. Pull cords on the sides would move the drapes open or closed. On the back wall where the TV is would require a full length drape system that would open on each side. The results would be much better than absorption panels. Remember, you have dipole speakers, and they bounce off everything. On the floor, well, that is up to you. But my choice would be heavy pile carpeting from end to end all the way to your chairs, or do the whole room. The difference will isolate the sound coming from the speaker in a way that will give you a reflection free room. I have used these principles many times before to garner great results. And cost wise, it is a cheap one.
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WC,
What does Mike from Suncoast Audio think of the 2 choices that you have it down to?
Sure seems like a tough choice. Isn't the MSB the only one that does MQA decoding? Tidal has MQA, and it might be something good (I've heard some say it's really freakin' good). Might be something good to have.
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WC,
I missed your post on your choice of the Pacific. Good God that thing is pretty. Shiny with tubes. Congrats.
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WC,
Didn't you just change tubes, due to a tube failure? Could that be the new better sound that you have now?
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WC,The Lampizator looks quite large. So did you get the one with the remote control volume? And second, does it have XLR outputs to go to the ARC 10? If it does have remote control, that would mean that you could go directly to the Block Audios, and not use the ARC 10 for a look at a more direct connection and sound.
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To each his own with sound treatment, I guess. I'm not big myself on bass traps, unless the room loads up too much with a full range speaker. But come on, the back wall and the floor are 2 places that send the sound to all the wrong places. They should have some kind of dampening material (Ie: rug, tapestry, and whatnot).
Hey if your happy with reflections, more power to ya. I agree, that putting up some of those expensive sound soakers that are way overpriced can suck the sound out of the system. I had my Martin Logans refuse to sing properly till I got them in the right room. A little common sense goes a long way. |
I should have mentioned that it is necessary to have back wall treatment with dipole speakers. Cause they shoot sound out the back.
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NIce writeup. Glad you like the Lamizator as much as you do. I think statements of the preamp going the way of the dodo is not always true. A preamp is a gain device and many times make the DAC sound better. The Lampizator being used as a preamp as well will be exposed tomorrow. There will be less gain coming from it. Will it be enough, and will it fill out the sound as good as the ARC 10? We will know soon enough. But it is not always better going directly from the DAC. My system has it both ways, and sometimes I like to have it go thru tubes instead of passive. And the sound is not wrong either way. It's just different.
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We are still waiting with baited breadth on the Lampizator review used as a preamp. Inquiring minds want to know. My popcorn is ready.
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WC,
I’d give the ARC 10 staying in the loop the nudge when all is said and done. I like the idea of changing SE cables and seeing where it goes with the Lampi as the preamp too. The Lampi looks like a real keeper. I’m sure the MSB is great, but the Lampizator Pacific has some of the best parts known to man inside. And it has TUBES.
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