My high pass filter experiment and a couple of questions


Prior to this "experiment" I was running my Maranztz SA10 with balanced Kimber Silver Streak to my Cary SLP05 and from there I was using balanced Kimber Silver Streak to my Cary V12; from my SLP05 I was going out of the RCA outs with some old Monster Cable to my ancient M&K MX-100.

Back in ’95 I bought a M&K LP-15 passive high pass filter and I liked it with the gear I was then using, but as the gear got bigger and better and I also started using balanced interconnects I quit using it.

A few days ago I dug it out and I left the balanced connections from CDP to the pre the same, but from the pre I went with some Kimber PBJ RCA (because I don’t have any Silver Streak RCA that is long enough) from my pre into the high pass filter, and from the high pass I went with Kimber PBJ RCA to my amp; I hooked up the Monster Cable (that I had been going from the pre to the sub with) to the high pass filter and went to the sub with that.

Initially I kind of liked it, but tonight I wasn’t so sure. (It almost seems as if I am prone to INITIALLY like any change I make.)

I have a lot less gain and a lot more real extate available on the volume knob of my pre. That part I do like. I assume that is because I am going into my amp with RCA connection versus balanced and less voltage?

The high pass filter does have a treble control and a bass control. Initially I was reticent to use it any way except with both controls turned all the way to full. However, I did find that by playing with the treble control a smidge I could take the hard (bright) edge off of certain (not all) CDs. I left the bass control turned all the way to full because I am thinking it is supposed to do the same thing that the level control on the sub is doing, so why defeat that on the sub?

Another question is: since the LP-15 is theoretically supposed to roll the bass off at 85 Hz and the Revel M126Be’s I am now using are supposed to be trying to go down to 54 Hz, if those speakers are only being sent 85 Hz and above from the amp, this should make them an easier load to drive? I would think that their sensitivity doesn’t change, but now the impedance should not have to dip as low?

And still another question(?) does balanced from CPP to pre and RCA from pre to high pass and then to amp seem problematic? And I suppose I should consider upgrading the PBJ RCAs to Silver Streak RCAs?

 

 

 

 

immatthewj

Showing 2 responses by phusis

Most who’d implement a high-pass filter over the main speakers would do so over an existing, passively configured speaker setup (i.e.: with a build-in crossover "seen" by the amp on its output side), meaning an extra layer of signal processing/filter of some kind is added to cut off the main speakers below a given frequency in the bass area.

If a DSP is suggested for this purpose it runs contrary to the desire of quite a few audiophiles to avoid added (or any) conversion steps in the signal chain (not least A/D conversion with an analogue input only, which would then be followed by the necessary D/A conversion step for the signal sent to the analogue input on the amp - unless it’s a digital variety), and so an analogue HP-filter may be preferred here. Purists on the other hand would rather avoid any kind of added HP-filter.

Previously I used my current DSP/digital crossover (Xilica) over my passively configured main speakers to cut them off below some 80Hz to be augmented with a pair of subs below, and being it’s a high quality DSP (even with A/D to D/A conversion steps) the result was great; I could detect no lack of transparency, resolution, change in tonality or other with the inclusion of the DSP, and being able to experiment with and find the sonically most desirable cut-off frequency to the subs (with both low and high-pass filtration) proved very worthwhile, also in relieving both my previous all-horn speakers and Class-A amplifier in the bass area.

Which is to say: with a high quality and transparent DSP/HP filtration device any remaining slight influence the filter may introduce by its mere existence in the chain as an added element (and thus, strictly speaking, can’t be claimed to be fully transparent in an isolated sense) is likely to be alleviated by the positive outcome it creates with relieving bass to amp and speakers, in addition to providing for the opportunity to tweak more effectively with the crossover range to the subs.

If on the other hand you’d run a fully active speaker setup, which I know you aren’t, the digital crossover/DSP or electronic XO(i.e.: non-DSP) would act as the only filtration means in the chain (remember: the passive XO is a filtration/equalizing device as well, and a sonically detrimental one at that) that could also apply a high-pass filter over the main speakers. This way the crossover you’re already using as a wholly necessary component (just like the passive XO) can simply be asked to perform another task, and that way you’re more effectively approaching your speaker setup + subs as a single speaker system per channel - they’re merely divided into separate boxes. This also means that the separate amps to each driver section work independently of each other; whatever goes on in each of these amps and corresponding driver sections won’t affect the other, which is a further bonus - and hardly an insignificant one.

It seems that many who attempts a high-pass solution over their passively configured main speakers for the use with subs don’t approach it all-out enough, be that both with regard to the added filter component used as well as and perhaps not least where the implementation goes; sometimes such a project is indeed doomed to begin with. Therefore, give it a good shot before coming to a conclusion.

@erik_squires wrote:

A single capacitor can be an effective high pass filter.

I’ll be doing that, not in the bass but with the inclusion of a dedicated tweeter (JBL 2405 Alnico) over my main speakers within shortly. A simple 1. order slope crossed in passively at just over 11kHz to augment the EV DH1A’s through the upper octave.

@james633 wrote:

I love active crossovers and the ability to highpass. I would not run a system without one these days. If does not improve your system then the setup must not be quite right.

+1

steep crossovers work better. 24db has always worked better for me than the 12 on the sub and 6 on the speakers.

Steep slopes (36dB/octave actively) mostly work better for me as well.

@immatthewj wrote:

I don’t think that the M&K LP-15 passive high pass filter is very high quality (and it is passive)

Question is if you’re bottlenecking your HP-initiative to begin with. If you are able to identify some positives inserting a high-pass filter as is however, imagine what it could do even more dedicated - i.e.: via a better means of HP-filtration.