My Audio Research experience

Thanks for all the posts guys but some information to clear up some misconceptions.  Firstly the amp failed with the original tubes.  I could not see a resistor blown when I opened the amp to see what had happened.  I replaced the fuse in the amp and tried other tubes but the amp wouldn't power up so I couldn't have damaged it by trying new tubes.  I was accused of pouring water into the amp by the Brisbane repair agent etc. etc. etc.

Compare this to my experience with Allnic.  I have an Allnic L-3000 that was upgraded to L-4000 by the manufacturer.  I bought the amp second hand from a guy in the US when the Aussie Dollar was higher.  I left the batteries in the remote for too long and they leaked and wrecked the remote.  By the way the preamp has worked faultlessly since I purchased it second hand in 2011 and it is the best sounding preamp I have had in my system.

I emailed Allnic Audio directly and this is a copy of the reply:

Dear Mr Tony, thanks your using L-4000 so long time, okey, will send you

a new remote.

Best regards KS Park.

A couple of weeks later I was contacted by the Australian agent and the remote was sent free of charge.  Guess which brand I will buy again in the future.

Tony Hazeldean

Just to clear up another issue, in Australia if we take our cars for service and take other than the manufacturers genuine parts then the dealers must use them and it doesn't affect the new car warranty.  This can save a fortune in parts as most manufactures buy them from after market makers anyway and just rebadge them as genuine. Both Ford and General Motors do this here. Why should amplifier manufacturers consider that they are the only ones that can get the correct tubes.  I used replacement KT120's that are only manufactured by Tung Sol anyway so why insist that you must purchase them from AR when they have to buy them from Tung Sol.  If they couldn't be used why have a bias control????

Also I didn't roll any tubes, the KT120's are only made by Tung Sol and the Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold tubes are the ones that AR specify for the upgrade to SE status.  I only ever replaced the KT120 tubes as I wasn't sure that the others were suitable for the non SE version.

Just for the record ARC don't make tubes so to call any tubes ARC tubes is a misnomer.  The fact that they won't repair one of their amps unless you purchase replacement tubes from them is pure capitalistic greed.  I am sure that in Australia this could be challenged in the courts and ARC would lose. Our laws prevent monopolistic and anti-competitive policies.  This would be a sure winner for the customers in any court here.

Anyway the Australian distributor didn't give me the option of buying new tubes from ARC for the amp they just sent it back with the board replaced and with no usable tubes.

I am calling them soon so stay posted for updates.

Hello Jea 48, I have found my tubes and as you say they are with the dealer in Brisbane.  I will be speaking with him today to have them returned. I have kept all email conversations which can prove all I have said. 

As a final word suppose you but a car brand new off the show room floor, call it car A.  You use it occasionally and after 21/2 years it breaks down and you take it back to where you brought it.  The car is away for four months and you keep asking about it. Finally when you enquire about it and copy the manufacturer in the email something gets done.  It gets transported 2,000 kilometers away to be fixed by a better mechanic.  They tell you the computer that operates all the electronics' has blown and it was caused by one of the spark plugs.  You have spare spark plugs so send them to be fitted.  Even though they are the same spark plugs the mechanic won't fit them because you have to buy the special spark plugs (made by the same aftermarket manufacturer) from the car maker at a huge mark up!!! Eventually they return the vehicle without any spark plugs but say as soon as you buy the plugs from them it will be ready to drive.  You wonder how they tested it and which of the original plugs caused the damage to the computer because none of them are labelled, just all in a box marked faulty.

Prior to the purchase of car A you purchase a second hand car - car B.  The car is out of warranty when you purchase it so you hold no illusions about who will have to pay for repairs.  The CD player/radio stops working after five years of ownership and you write to the manufacturer because they are not available in the local shops.  The manufacturer sends a new CD player/radio free of charge including postage and you fit it and it works perfectly.

All I'm asking is which car would you buy next time?

Hello all and again thanks for your insightful comments and criticisms.  Some further information.  You are correct I am fairly unsophisticated as an audiophile having only been introduced to the wonders of Hi Fi equipment when I purchased my first loudspeaker kit in 1973 - a pair of KEF Concertos.  I had a NAD amp and a Connoisseur turntable, Grace arm and moving magnet cartridge.

One day I heard some Magnepan speakers and fell in love with the sound.  Unfortunately I could never afford this equipment in Australia at the time being in the 'I'm having kids time of life'.

In 1992 my brother was sent by the RAAF to study at Dayton Ohio.  While he was there he purchased a pair of Apogee Centaur Majors, a McCormack DNA 1, a McCormack ALD 1 with outboard power supply and phono stage.  Upon his return I purchased them from him and I still have the ALD 1 but traded the DNA 1 for a DNA 2, I have had both amps upgraded by Steve McCormack to Revision A status as well as a second DNA 2.  All these amps are still in use and sound fantastic.

My tube journey started about 12 years ago when I purchased a second hand Manley Steelhead which I have since sold to my brother.  We replaced the tubes in the amp last night and it sounds amazing.  I purchased an Aesthetix Io Eclipse brand new as well as Martin Logan CLX speakers.  Part of my unsophisticated audio journey.  I now own a Clearaudio Master Reference turntable, Graham Phantom Supreme tonearm, Benz Micro LP-S cartridge, SME Series V arm and Koetsu Azule cartridge.  I have the Allnic L-3000 preamp and currently Ayon Audio Orthos XS using KT150 tubes drive the CLX's and I use twin Martin Logan subs.  I also purchased a pair of Apogee Divas which are with Graz being upgraded and these will eventually replace the CLX's.  I used the Ref75 for the rear channels driving the Apogee Centaur Majors because I felt they were a bit lacking in power for the CLX's.

I purchased several power amps because my original intention was to use an active crossover and tri-amp the Divas but I have since changed my mind but will keep the amps in case that changes in the future.  My intention was to use tubes for mid and tweeter and SS for the bass panel.

Anyway I agree with the many posts that suggest never to deal with the retailer in Brisbane again and I have already decided this having had issues with him on other occasions.  Unfortunately this leaves only one other dealer in Queensland and as I live in Mackay, I will now have to travel to Sydney or Melbourne for any listening sessions.  Like travelling from Los Angeles to New York really.

ARC have been good since I have updated them on the situation but the Australian Distributor is trying to pass the blame back to them advising me that the person at ARC who replied to my original email no longer works there so there was unavoidable discontinuity by ARC.

For my part I discussed the possibility of the upgrade using my supplied tubes with the Distributor and the email correspondence that took place: 

Fri, 21 Oct 2016

Hello Gareth, 

Thank you for your reply regarding my Reference 75 amplifier. From your email, I am reading between the lines that you have only just looked at the amplifier to determine what is wrong with it. This is extremely disappointing if it is true. 

I was going to get the amplifier upgraded to the SE model but have since changed my mind, AR will not permit upgrading with tubes supplied by the owner and as I have the tubes required for the upgrade, I do not want to pay for them again. As this is their policy then please repair the amplifier back to original under warranty and I will use the tubes that I sent with the unit (for that repair) rather than buy additional tubes from Audio Research.

Hello Tony,

 It is actually quite the contrary, there have been points of inefficiency in the process that have led to this unfortunate delay in processing your service job. 

 My involvement in this is to try to resolve this as quickly as possible and not to further exacerbate the situation.

 According to my information, your unit is out of warranty and was damaged by corrosion caused most likely by a fluid being spilled onto the main board.

 The RRP of the main board is AUD$3,500.00 inc GST plus labour, as mentioned I am happy to subsidise this due to the circumstances we are discussing.

 I personally am not aware of your request to do the SE upgrade on your unit, if this is the case we can certainly manage to create a work around on the valves that would help. Please let me know as this will impact the repair work also.

 Kind Regards,

 Gareth Weller  ||  National Sales Manager

Hello Gareth,

You are incorrect about the warranty. The unit was under warranty when it was sent for repair. I have the receipt and warranty card to prove it. Nothing has ever been spilt on the unit it has been in an air conditioned room in Mackay where I have had other amplifiers for over 10 years with no issues.

Hi Tony, 

I am the service manager for Synergy Audio, I totally apologize for the delay in getting back to you regarding Ref 75 repair.

 We are liaising with Audio Research for the (discounted) price for the boards required to upgrade your REF75 to the SE version (less the tubes).

 I will be in touch as soon as we hear back from Audio Research.

 Thank you for your patience.

 Kind Regards,

 Jim

Jim Filatakis ||  Technician

As you can see the amp was with the distributor since last November.  I finally got sick of waiting several weeks ago and ARC have sped up the repair so I now have an amp with a new board , no tubes I can use, no idea of the future warranty if I use ARC tubes although I have had a missed call form the Distributor.

I will keep you posted.

I do not blame ARC for this mess but they are responsible for their Australian Distributor and repair centres.  As I said my experience means that I will never deal with several people in Australia or purchase ARC equipment.

Hello triode 12.

I now have an amp I am told has been repaired but currently have no tubes to check this assertion.  It hasn't been upgraded to SE status but I am told the original board has been replaced under warranty.

I am told my tubes are at the dealers in Brisbane and will be sent back.

I am told that if I use these tubes and the board or other parts are damaged I won't be covered.

I am not sure if this matters because the amp is out of warranty anyway.

I have to phone Synergy today to find out the cost of tubes from ARC but I don't know if there will be any further warranty if I do buy those tubes.

The amp took nearly a year to repair.  This is the point that seems to have eluded everyone and the only one that really matters.

Apparently if I believe the comments, this is because I didn't send the amp back to the distributor.  I am sure now that the next time my car needs warranty repairs I will drive it to the Melbourne distributor because my 'Dealer' won't be able to fix it.

Knghifi,

The amp was new when I purchased it.  I live in North Qld where the climate obviously doesn't agree with ARC circuit boards as it is the only board that has ever failed in 30 years of ownership of amps like McCormack, NAD, Denon, Carver, Ayon, Allnic, Anthem, Krell etc. etc.

I am then accused of spilling fluid blah! blah! blah!

Why don't you read my thread to determine what Is said and separate it from the other frivolous comments.

I have had personal dealings with Steve McCormack, Kris Jeter, Rob Graham and Kung Su Park over the years and all have been helpful, accommodating and especially good natured and helpful about their products.  Steve McCormack sent me parts and a circuit diagram on two occasions when I had problems with two of his amps.  These arrived in record time. I praise their products but because I have an issue with an ARC product I am at fault.

If this is typical of the threads about ARC as you claim, then no-one should ever buy their products.

I am sure that it is not typical of ARC but I will never again buy one of their products.  My choice!!!  You choose or believe what you want to believe but I didn't write this thread to upset ARC fans although I have done plenty of that apparently.

I started a thread about ARC and it ended up in a discussion about Carver amps.  I would like to add some information about both, for the record.

Firstly I was contacted by Synergy Audio in Australia about the Reference 75.  They informed me that the issue with the main board was from corrosion. I live in Mackay, which is tropical and I am only a mile from the ocean at best, so subject to South Easterly trade winds bringing salt water inland.  It is also a coal port and before you all get on the environmental bandwagon, you can't have cars without coal, it is made from iron ore and coking coal.  Just wanted to add that because the Greenies in Australia want to close all the mines because of climate change but all drive to the protests - hypocrites.  Anyway Synergy have informed me that the board was damaged from natural causes and that the new board is designed with better protection and won't suffer the same fate.  They have also been in contact with ARC who have offered to replace the tubes under warranty even though this is well outside the terms of the warranty.  This is very much appreciated by myself and has changed my opinion of ARC as I think they have been embarrassed by the situation.  Thank you for this extremely generous offer.  Happy days.

Thank you for your order!

Order Information

Merchant:

Bob Carver LLC

Billing Information
Anthony Hazeldean
1 Matterson Ave
Eimeo, Queensland 4740
Australia
thazeldean@bigpond.com

Transaction ID:

4077306865

I purchased them when I saw an advert In TAS.  I believe they were the first pair in Australia before Bob even had an Australian Distributor.  They are wonderful sounding amps and are extremely dynamic through the Martin Logan CLX's.  I really, really like the sound of these amps.

I note that they were awarded Product of the Year by TAS but this was discontinued, I believe when Bob Carver was taken over by Emotiva (I think that is what they were called)

When the KT150 tubes were released I emailed Bob about installing them in the Black Beauties and this is his reply. 

Hi Tony,

Yes, you can replace the KT120s with KT150s. The amplifier might not get as much power as our new 350 watt amplifiers because your Black Beauties don’t have the latest updates, new transformers, and increased energy storage, but unless you really push them hard, you won’t have problems.

Thanks!

Ulises Hubbard

Chief Operating Officer

I installed the KT 150's and after several months of operation started having problems with one monoblock blowing a tube and the fuse.  I intended to send these to a repair agent in Melbourne but as I now find they are still under warranty I would like to return them for repair.  Can you please supply the warranty address fmalitz?  I would very much like to get these beasts up and running again.

I love happy endings and thanks for all those that provided support.

Hi jetter,

Sorry that I lost all credibility after suggesting that Grogan really fitted the name after he said:

Well, duh, obviously I would buy car B the next time. There is nothing more important in a car than a properly functioning CD Player/Radio!! when I wrote:

Prior to the purchase of car A you purchase a second hand car - car B. The car is out of warranty when you purchase it so you hold no illusions about who will have to pay for repairs. The CD player/radio stops working after five years of ownership and you write to the manufacturer because they are not available in the local shops. The manufacturer sends a new CD player/radio free of charge including postage and you fit it and it works perfectly.

All I'm asking is which car would you buy next time?

I felt a bit miffed about the tone of his reply.

Thanks for the support guys and I am glad that I have sorted it out.  It has restored my faith in American superiority in Hi Fi above the challengers.