I think musicality refers to how convincingly our system simulates the musical reality we are listening to... In order to be objective (& I beleive we could) I think we need a benchmark. This could be terms which, together, indicate musicality. Thereafter, these terms can serve to "rate" systems. May I propose a few with some analogy from cars: timing (can we hear the *way* the musicians play); "roadholding" (dynamics, speed, changes etc /can we precisely follow & be absorbed by how musicians drive their specific "musical" auto? as the musicians intended...) "naturalness" are we transported to the original venue (live performance), and/or are we "tricked" into "seeing" the, say, contralto realistically performing before us.
BTW, I beleive we should NOT take into account situational parametres such as, drops in power circuits, atmosphere (a good drink w/ friends)... but allow for optimised conditions as we know them.
In this light, and at normal listening levels (-15) my system falls slightly short @ sudden increases of spl. methinks the amp runs out of juice... |
Detlof & all other contributors, may I suggest we try digging a bit deeper, now that we seem to have completed the first round? We could test the descriptions mentioned above hands-on (ears-on), and see if we can't take this further. True, it takes time but it seems to me most of the post on this site really border around this same subject...
I'll try recognising the descriptions & suggestions above and get back -- if, hopefully, there's continued interest.
Regards |
Happy Easter, Detlof and others! |
In view of the fascinating posts above, may I venture an interim summary at this point, using expressions as well as single words used (random order)?
*effortlessly perceive the (performer's') meaning of the
note(s);
*Rythm and timbres;
*"naturalness" (my word)i.e., how do reproduced sounds compare with live / reality (real instruments, real space), and relate to our memory of reality;
*(ultimately) does the reproduction transport us and induce emotional reaction.
Detlof, maybe as initiator, you could give a fuller picture at this point?
(Caveat to newcomers on this thread: this post is not intended to, and doesn't fully reproduce the information contained above: newcomers to the thread are heartily invited to read what comes before.) |
Thanks, frogman, I, too, second (or "third") yr post. I live in an area where audio seems to be the subject of technical bickering & emotional controversy -- rather than of music; and this, in thinly disguised adolescent exchanges of the "my system's better than yours..", "this or that nationality doesn't know a things about music, likewise for their products..."
The most important subject, music & a system's musicality rarely enters the scene. Thank you again detlof and all others for jumping on Detlof's present bandwagon.
Let's continue this important discussion.
Greg |
Looking forward to yr input, Frogman. Thanks! |
An illuminating rendition, indeed! I wonder if we could stretch Katharina's & frogman's proposition to say (borrowing Detlof's term) that musicality is the capability of evoking "gestalt" of a performance in which we did not and COULD not partake.. I'm thinking of recordings, taking place during a specific event or when the THEN atmosphere was emotionally charged, of which, most of us have no similar experiential reference... can something of that atmosphere filander through even for a fleeting moment. I'm thinking, say, of a performance of Beethoven's 5th piano Concerto by Gieseking / Orchestra of the 3rd Reich (!!)/ A. Rother. Allegedly, A. Hitler was present. Gieseking, starts to sound (to my ears) hysterical as of the adaggio, and continues unto the end. There is a disturbing edge to the sound -- it's not the recording which, for the time, is excellent (and in nascent stereo!!). Subjectivity? No doubt. Am I prone to "suggestibility"? I did not read the blurb: this is a friend's CD, he wanted to surprise me.
Thank you for making the exchanges on this thread ever more fascinating.
Greg |
Off at a tangent, if I may. The benediction of the NET is we can get together virtually, and communicate. The curse is, we are (I am) still far away geographically. Too bad we can't get together and share the experiences related in our exchanges...
My best to all. |
Frogman, couldn't we assume that the performer's(') spirit influences their performance? Furthermore, that the musicians' personal psyche and the surrounding collective energy (for want of a better word) permeate the spirit? If so, there will be nuances in the performance that reflect these emotional parametres... and they will be picked up during a recording.
I am borrowing your example of persons excercisng a powerful force / or aura. The greatness is, sometimes, in the way such musicians can sublimate collective and personal emotions, and can express these through their creative impetus (or, maybe, genius)... the result being a great work of art (performance), or a work of art (performance) by a great musician -- both sometimes?
Humans create & respond to situations using sounds (including non-verbal sounds) and, ofcourse, body and facial expressiveness. (For most of the music available, we have no image -- just the sound.) A microphone can capture some of these sounds -- call it "ambient" sound, or whatever. A good system will reproduce the nuances / flavour / gestalt of such sounds; not the sound of turning the page on the score, but rather, the sound made by the collective emotion in the venue where the recording was made.
Or am I getting more verbiose with time?
Regards, Greg |
