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"Musical" subwoofers? Advice please on comparing JL subs

I'm ready to be taught and I'm ready to be schooled. I've never owned a subwoofer and I'm not so hot with the physics of acoustics. I've had my eye on two 10" JL Audio subwoofers, the e110 ($1600) and the f110v2 ($3500). I hope this is a simple question: will the f110v2 be more "musical" than the e110?

Perhaps unnecessary details: I'm leaning into small bookshelf speakers, mini monitors with limited bass, for near-field listening in a small room. I don't want to rock the casbah and rattle the windows; I want to enhance the frequency range from roughly 28hZ to perhaps 90 or 100hZ: the lower notes of the piano, cello, bassoon, double bass, etc. I think I'm asking: will one of those subwoofers produce a more "musical" timbre in that range? Is spending the extra $2000 worth it in terms of acoustic warmth and pleasure? More generally, are some subs more musical than others? Or is that range just too low for the human ear to discern critically? 

I know there are a lot of variables and perhaps my question can't be answered in isolation. If it helps, let's put to the side topics such as room treatments, DSP and DARO, debates about multiple subs, debates about using subwoofers at all, and the difficulties of integration. Let's assume a fast main speaker with limited bass. I'm not going to put a 12" sub in the room. While I'm not going to put four subs in the small room, I would strongly consider putting in two, and it would of course be much more economical to put in two e110s. This, though, would only lead to the same question now doubled: would two f110v2 subs sound more musical than two e110s? Also, I'm sure there are other fine subs out there but I'm not looking for recommendations; if it helps to extrapolate, consider the REL S/510 and T/5i. 

I realize that I may be wildly off with all this, and I know that the best way to find out is to try them out. I'm not at that point yet. I'm simply curious about the "musicality" of different subwoofers. 
northman

Showing 6 responses by tuberculin

tuberculin
87 posts
 
@northman

I hear you. My room is 12X11, so I know of what you speak. My near field system has two subs. I chose the REL T/7i over the JL simply because I value Class A/B over Class D in an analogue system. If I were digital I might not mind Class D. They are nearly the same price.
People just don't understand that in a small room there is barely enough room for 2 subs let alone 4. With record storage and equipment there is just enough room to walk.

tuberculin
87 posts
 
@slimpikins

I know what you are saying. The class D is a switching amp, just like a wall wart. I don’t like the sound. SS amps typically sound similar to me.
Series T/i uses the same Class A/B power amplifier sections with large, high current power supplies, precision-wound toroidal transformers and an amazing reliability record that has powered almost 100,000 RELs.
In this case I take exception. The RELs are beyond your expectations. That is why I chose it over the Class D JL.

If you look at the way a Class D operates is chops the signal up similar to digitizing it. Yes they can make them sound pretty good with lots of power, but it don't sound as good to me.

Thank you and have a nice day.
tuberculin
87 posts
 
@slimpickins5  I don't doubt that there are some very expensive Class D amps that will sound great. They are way out of my budget, mostly for the 5% who make too much money. There are some modestly priced units that sell within my budget, but until recently they weren't very good.

The PS audio product reviewed in Stereophile December 2020 issue are probably good sounding. Especially in the bottom.

They are still PCM or PWM. Pulse Code Modulation or Pulse Width Modulation are sampling techniques that quantify analogue into pulses or bits. Bits are bits. Bits are digital.You can turn a square wave (bits) into a sine wave with filters, the same basic technique used in Class D or PWM amps. I prefer the purity of an analogue signal from start to finish, vinyl to speaker cone.
Also, they use chips to do the work. That's solid state. I choose analogue and tubes.

tuberculin
87 posts
 
Slim, Yeah, I’m not able to pay new car prices for amps. My whole system was the cost of a decent sedan, lock, stock and barrel. I’m more budget/value based. These are in my range. But, I’m not in the equipment revolving door game. It took a few iterations to get where I am and I’m staying. I’m in this for the music, not the joy of playing with new toys every few months.

However, Stereophile was not terribly complementary of the M1s they tested (two sets) although their measurements confirmed the marketing hype. Anthem uses PWM.

The bottom line was that the reviewer would not recommend them, yet. The reviewer did expect the flaws found would be corrected with further voicing perhaps over time. Also, I notice there are a lot of digital components in the circuit (not signal path) that have the potential to add digital noise. I think in a home theater setting they would do well (these amps are out of my price range for TV audio as well). And, they use a PCB not P2P wiring. So overall I probably wouldn’t audition them if I were into an equipment change.

I hope that you continue to enjoy yours. I’m glad they sound so good to you.
tuberculin
87 posts
 
FYI: How a Class D "Digital" Amplifier Works

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/class-d-digital-amplifier

tuberculin
87 posts
 
Slim, I read the Wikipedia thing long ago. I have been familiarizing myself with the digital amps for a long time. I wanted to see what all the hype was about. I have a degree in electronics and spent most of my career in digital. No, I'm not an amp designer, but I understood Class A and A/B over half a century ago.You can't convince me bits ain't bits. Nothing you say can sway me. You're talking spending new car money for amps. Sorry, even the cheap ones are off the table. Not class A or A/B.

I really don't care about efficiency, heat or any of the "benefits" of Class D. Full on and full off is bits. Bits are bits. Bits are digital. Plus they have switching power supplies as well. Enjoy your Class D's and spend another 50K to 100K on equipment. If you got it  spend it.
Peace, out.
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