musical sub


I need to improve my system with a compatible sub for my system as it has evolved so far. My primary concern is the musicality, although Home Theatre is important, it is not as important as the music enjoyment. We watch a lot of music dvd's and play lots and lots of CD's, and of course third is the home theatre.

For reference, the main pieces of my system so far are:

McCormack HT5 amp (5 channel)
Anthem D2 processor w/ Arc
B&W Nautilus series 804 fronts, HT2 ctr, SCM surrounds
McCormack UDP1 disk player (the upgraded model)
Dennon 3800BDI blu ray player
etc.

What I am looking for is something that will add to the system, is very musical, and that will survive eventual component upgrades as I learn more and refine the sound.

Any suggestions on the sub? (or equipment)

Thanks
still_learning

Showing 4 responses by afc

I too use JL. Strength is that the sub has so many different options for settings, you can really get it to integrate rather seamlessly.
I agree with most in this thread- selection of components can take care of a lot of bass issues. Your B&W's are excellent speakers. They roll off at what, 38 Hz? Good for most everything except pipe organs. However, another consideration that affects bass, be it good or bad, is the room. It's much more difficult to compensate for room acoustics. Big, huge space, you're gonna have some issues with bass. Some would say the biggest factor is in fact the listening space. I think that's a fair statement. I had to have a subwoofer when I went to monitors. The music was thin sounding without it. But you have to find something that's going to integrate well into your system- something that's fast, flexible and will "disappear", otherwise, you'll just have a deep, annoying thump augmenting (or interfering with) the B&W's. You've got to find your own sweet spot, what appeals most to you. "Musicality" is a very subjective term- what sounds good to you is "musical" and it may sound like garbage to someone else. I had a sub before the JL that just kind of tossed a low "hum" out there, and it was indeed annoying. The JL doesn't do that for me. It blends. Some may think my system now sounds less musical, but that's their opinion. I'm the one that listens to it every day, just as you do with your rig. Music, cars, your guitar amp that you prefer- those are YOUR tastes. In the long run, isn't that all that really matters to you? A friend of mine plays guitar, and he despises tube amps for his axe. You prefer your tube amp for yours. See my drift here? You've received some very good choices for a sub in this thread, lots of options. Maineiac brings up the valid point of losing musicality with a sub. But, in the end, it's all up to what you think sounds best for your tastes. If you believe you need a subwoofer, go for it. They're your ears.
Personally, I like B&W. I think they're good speakers. Thin sounding? Perhaps, but almost anything that doesn't have big woofers can sound thin, particularly in a big space. My Aliantes sounded thin in my room- until I got the JL sub. It integrates so seamlessly that now the Aliantes sound like thunder. It's as if the bass is emanating from the mains, not the sub. It's not just JL products that can do that for you- most anything that's fast and offers a lot of flexibility- can and will do the same for you. The thin sound will vanish if you choose wisely. You may find with a sub that you no longer need speakers as big as your B&W's- a bookshelf monitor may be just as good or better.
Bookshelf monitors are usually prized for their midrange timbre and accuracy. They obviously can't stack up to a floorstanding monitor in the bass department. That's due to a number of factors, and the drivers are only one of them. Cabinets are a big issue, and the bigger the cabinet, in general, if it's properly constructed, the bigger the bass. How do you think full range drivers ever even make it to market, and have some people swearing by them? Cabinet tricks help them alot, so they can go deep. Bookshelf speakers are usually more simple loads to drive- one crossover max usually. Floorstanding units usually have, by nature, more complex crossovers. More drivers usually equals more crossovers, particularly in models where individual drivers are assigned responsibility for reproducing different frequencies. That often results in a more difficult load to drive. SET amps don't usually do well with complex loads- they'll clip a lot faster with a complex load, speakers with multiple crossover networks that have varying impedence. Drives SET amps crazy. Conversely, couple a nice SET with a simple bookshelf monitor, and many will tell you that you're listening to midrange heaven. Matter of taste there. But what to do with the low frequencies? Well, particularly in a room of your size, 13 x 36 with an open end, with a lot of hard surfaces, you're going to run into crazy resonant frequencies and generally suffer in the bass department. So, you've got a bit of a conundrum. What to do? Go to gigantic floorstanders and just pound low frequencies, keep what you have and supplement with a sub, or even go to bookshelf for the best possible mid and high reproduction you can get, and then supplement with one or even two high quality subs to take care of the bass. Experimentation is the key. You need, again, to find what suits your tastes best. Raw power from your amp isn't everything. You'll need to consider speaker sensitivity, and monitors usually don't stack up with floorstanders in that department. That's a generalization, but it hold fairly true. In a space of that size, personally, I'd use at least one sub. You'll have to mess with positioning- corner setup usually gets the most out of a sub. Optimizing speaker placement will also help. You'll need to find the "sweet spot" or set up to create a sweet spot. It'll sound different in different listening positions, so you set your sweet spot where you want it. Ideally, you'd have to consider speaker placement- you can use the Cardas Golden Room formula as a starting point- choose what you want in a main speaker- accurate reproduction of mids (where the bulk of music is reproduced) and highs, or a big floorstander with thunderous bass- work in a sub or two, and then get some room treatments going to dampen some of the resonant frequencies you'll deal with in that room. Curtains, furniture, maybe a bookcase....the stone floors are probably pretty nice, and I doubt you'll want to cheapen the appearance with a carpet that may help deaden some of the character of that echo chamber. Rives Audio does room solutions, as do many other companies. May want to have a look there. Scroll some of the virtual systems, and see how people have used room treatments here on Agon to maximize both the sonic quality of their room, as well as making them look great. It's a big space you've got, and there are many ways to improve the sound besides just adding a sub.