To the OP you've missed the point, Sonos doesn't need a server it is the server so to speak. What you want is a NAS to store your music on, with a NAS the only time you use a computer is to rip CD's to the NAS. The Sonos plays your music off the NAS, no computer needs to be on. Also you can control the Sonos with either their dedicated remote or a iDevice or an Android device. I think it would be helpful to you to if you visited the Sonos web site and read up on how the Sonos system actually works. |
I'm sorry maybe I wasn't clear.. What you want to hold your music, or as you call it a "Server/host" is a NAS (Network Attached Storage) this is a hard drive that attaches to your router.
The NAS does not "hook up" to your stereo. The only unit that would connect to your system will be a Sonos zone player (now called a Connect, it used to be called a ZP90) there is nothing else that would, unless you plan on using a Dac in-between the Zone Player and your stereo to improve the sound quality, but that's not necessary and isn't a part of a Sonos system but rather an add on. You will also need a Bridge if the Zone Player will not be in the same room as your Router and Stereo. The Sonos will access your music files from the NAS via the ZP90 and play them as you want, with no computer needed past the initial setup and to rip cd's to the NAS.
I'm not try to be rude (as you were) but obviously you should read up on HOW a Sonos system can be designed and implemented because you are most assuredly not "Aware of exactly how a Sonos works" because if you were you'd be asking: "What NAS should I buy ?" not going on about hosts and servers..
BTW I've been using Sonos for better than 5 years and I've installed many many systems so I DO know what I'm talking about...good luck. |
So you're going to use both? Side by side? Because Sonos will not interface with the W4S unit, or any of the others, it is a closed stand alone system, just as the Meridian Sooloos is a stand alone system.
The Sonos is also, as I'm sure you are aware a multi room, multi source system the W4S and the Xiva aren't, in fact it appears the Xiva is a NAS with server/ rendering software built in and needs a Dac) and the W4S which looks really nice (even though not available yet ) also needs an out board Dac, since it doesn't have one built in. The other thing with the W4S is that it's storage is built in 1tb, uses a single drive and can't be setup as as a RAID for back up.. it does look as though it has USB ports for expansion but their sketchy info doesn't elaborate much on it's features. (BTW I have a W4S Dac1 in a system and it sounds great)
You didn't mention cost but the W4S Server with one of their Dac's , i.e. Dac 1 will run about $3000.00
The only peripheral products (besides a router) Sonos will interface with are a NAS (for storage), outboard Dac (to improve sound quality) and of course a Mac/PC. So when you asked your original question it sure seemed to me as if you are confused as to how Sonos works, because it won't interface with anything else and certainly not with the products you mention. |
I'd like to correct myself a little. One can input an analog signal into a Sonos Zone player that can be distributed amongst the other zones, so it's not an entirely closed system in that regard. But doing that one also looses a lot of the elegance of the Sonos system. Also in those other zones one would be limited to either playing internet radio and other music services, or what ever is feeding the analog input say the output of the Dac that's being used with the say the W4S music server.. It's not a very user friendly approach and certainly diminishes the beauty, and simplicity of what Sonos is all about.
So again maybe I'm confused since you didn't specify if the goal of this system for you is just a single room system, or the ability to do multiple rooms? If the plan is just for a single room than there's really no point in having a Sonos system since the W4S unit really just duplicates the same functions, abet less elegantly than the Sonos.
Maybe explaining my system will add clarity. I use a PS Audio PWD/Bridge ( similar in concept to the W4S unit, although I use a NAS for storage) in my main system so I can listen to high res downloads and because the PSA system just sounds amazing. I also have running side by side in that room a Sonos Zone Player, along with four other zones in the house. I keep a Zone Player hooked up to the PWD in the main system so I can play the same music synchronized throughout the house for parties.
In any case good luck I'm sure you'll get it all figured out and configured the way you want. |
Now we're cooking! That's as I explained pretty much what I do.. Sonos for the whole house PWD/Bridge for the big system... Best of all worlds, of course if Sonos would just do Hi-Res it would make things much simpler..
And sincerely not to be rude or condescending if you'd explained it that way in your original post we'd have saved many electrons :-)
I really like the W4S server it looks nice, the W4S guys build great stuff at great prices and are very accessible. Of course I'd like it even better if they made a version that excludes the Hard Drive and the CD Rom.. I much prefer to be able to use the ripping software of my choice, and I don't like being limited to the size and type of HD they use in the unit. I also wonder how you edit metadata on the W4S system, trust me you Will have to edit metadata. I'd also check with the W4S folks as to how you'll be able to sync the files that the W4S server creates with iTunes. I didn't see ALAC files listed as an option and iTunes doesn't support Flac natively, you could use Aiff files, but Sonos doesn't work as well with Aiff as it does the others. Since the W4S server uses basically an internal NAS I wonder if you can create a Share and point iTunes and Sonos at it??? .
I still think that if the W4S unit could pull your music files off a NAS that it would be a simpler setup ( I need to call them and ask) then you'd have easier access to all your music on both the Sonos system and the W4S system, in addition to being able to pick the size and type of drives. Thats' how I have my PWD/Bridge and Sonos setup.. I rip from my Mac straight to the NAS and both units can access the files, with no computer needing to be on. I have my music backed up on the NAS as a Raid 1 mirror and I use a second USB drive as redundant backup.. always remember back up ,back up ,back up
As for a Mac Mini your right, if your trying to keep it clean and simple. I also think the W4S is a way nicer unit and will in all likely hood crush that Xiva unit sonically.The other unit to consider is the Bryston file player it sounds great and is stone cold reliable, although it doesn't have the flexibility of the W4S as regards internet radio and other music services.. I love Pandora ..
Just keep in mind with the Sonos the first unit needs to be hardwired to the router.. not a big deal it can be wireless from there out.. also if you can hardwire the Sonos Connect to the router ( if you have or can run a Cat wire to the main system) then you don't need a Bridge, that unit would be the first link of the system, I use a Connect as my first unit.
Anyway good luck, I've been doing the computer audio thing for a few years now (and audio in general as a hobby, passion and vocation for 30 plus years) and I'm always interested and excited about new , and better ways ( and other peoples) ideas and solutions and setups.. one can never know it all, and it's fun to learn.. one of the things that makes this passion so much fun!
And please feel free to email me if you ever have need of another "take" or have any other questions you may feel I could help out with. |
Since you can run a ethernet cable (Use Cat6a) from the router to where the Zone Player will be that's perfect.. you won't need a Bridge, that unit will be your first hardwired link, also since the Sonos unit has two ethernet ports the W4S unit can be slaved off the Sonos so it also has internet connectively and is on the network. As for the Bryston, yes the Sonos will give you all internet radio and music services your heart desires, and more! So you could also go the Bryston route, although the Bryston isn't designed as much for network connectively, it uses local USB drives for storage, not a networked, or internal solution.
As for setting up a NAS, it is chimp simple.. really the NAS just attaches to your router.. virtually no setup.. the Netgear are particular easy to setup , well made and work perfectly with Sonos and other devices. http://www.netgear.com/home/products/storage/advanced-prosumer/RNDU2120.aspx
What I wonder is how to get the music you rip to the W4S server (if that's how you go) off the unit? it appears that the W4S unit has ethernet connectively , so one should be able to copy those files off the unit, if for no other reason than to backup the files.
I'm thinking in terms off access to your music on both systems.. if you rip your music ( I'm assuming you haven't ripped your CD's yet at all?)
to the W4S how does one get them off?? I ask that because you're going to absolutely want any CD's that you rip, also available to play through the Sonos. The best and easiest way to do that with Sonos is with a NAS.. that way no computer needs to be on.
If you can't get the music off the W4S, then I'm wondering if you can load files directly into the unit, and can it be done over your network? If that's the case you could rip your CD's on your PC/Mac to the NAS and then copy them over to the W4S unit.. I'm just thinking about how to reduce as many steps as necessary.. From a simplicity stand point if the W4S lets you (it really should) copy the files off it's HD then you could rip your music with it then simply move a copy to the NAS for the Sonos to be able to access.
Well once you decide what unit (not the Sonos) you're going to use you'll be able to figure out the best way to store/rip your CD's... |
One other thing I was wondering and frankly it never occurred tome to ask, but why do you want the W4S Server?? I assumed all along that it's so you can listen to HiRes downloads. But if you aren't interested in that you only really need the Sonos and a good Dac to get great sound.. The Sonos with the right Dac does sound really good all by it's self.. In fact depending on your budget you could get the new PS Audio PWD MKII which now has class leading jitter reduction, that with a Sonos will sound amazing, and if you decide that you do want to do HiRes you could just add the PS Audio Bridge which turns the PWD into a full fledged music server. You'd still want to keep your music on a NAS, but the Sonos and the PWD would both pull from the NAS. Only time a computer would come into play is ripping CD's. Just a thought. |
The PS Audio will work the about the same as Sonos does with iTunes.. In that neither really "works" with iTunes as I think you're thinking. Sonos looks to the iTunes library and copies an index of it to play.. The PS Audio also uses "shares" I understand your question is based on ease of use so I'll just answer yes, sort of.
If you are on a PC I'd strongly recommend using DBpoweramp to rip.. If you're on a Mac I'd use XLD..there are numerous reason why but the biggest is the way iTunes creates files.. Once you get to that point you can try them out and you understand that ripping with iTunes isn't the best choice, it's fine as music manager. |
Jamesw20 I'm waiting on my MKII upgrade.. From everyone who gotten it I'm very excited, sounds like a big upgrade to what was already very good SQ. |
First off I would not buy any music from iTunes, period. It's all compressed mp3 quality, at the best 256K .. yeech. It's actually cheaper to buy the CD from Amazon.. if you sign up for their Prime membership 2 day shipping is free.. and there's also lots of used CD's there usually less than $5.00
I'm going to suggest that if you're really looking to go simple then start off with just the Sonos System and a real good Dac, a Dac that can grow quality wise with the rest of your system. Sonos will pretty much seamlessly integrate with iTunes, you can use iTunes to rip and manage your music. Just keep in mind that if you don't want a computer on all the time.. then get a NAS.. if you don't use a NAS your music is stored on the computer and it needs to be on in order for Sonos to play the music on it. There are only two places you can store your music, a Nas or the HD of your computer, the Nas is a much more elegant solution; this of course does not apply to internet radio or music services which stream live.
Then once you get comfortable with how this all works.. nothing like real hands on experience, it'll be way easier for you to decide what else you want to incorporate into your system, or what direction you want to take things. |
As for a NAS I'd recommend the Netgear RNDU2120 or RND2210 the 2120 has faster processor and dual gigabit ports among other features but the 2210 would also be fine and is a bit cheaper. Both are very easy to setup..pretty much plug and play, read the directions :-) Both are 2tb units, they can be setup as Raid 1, Raid one is a mirror.. it reduces the storage space from 2tb to 1tb but what ever you copy to the NAS is automatically duplicated on the other drive, FYI a 1Tb drive will hold about 3000 cd's
Rega Dac is a nice unit, haven't heard, it but it's gotten lots of good press. Other nice Dac at that price is the W4S Dac 1.
No you won't rip the music twice. In iTunes you pick where iTunes looks for it's "library" you just point iTunes to the NAS. When you rip (a wired connection is best for this) you will be ripping to the NAS not to the HD in the Mac. When you want to put music on iDevices you just hook them up to the Mac/or Mac Book and it's the same as if the files were on the computer. You can also set iTunes to copy music to the idevice in mp3 format so as not to use up all the space on the idevice. You will of course want to rip your CD's as ALAC files (Apple Lossless) this is Apples version of FLAC, these are Lossless codec's (cd quality, mp3 is not) you could also rip to AIFF ( this is Apples version of a WAV file) but Sonos doesn't work as well with AIFF files and ALAC does sound pretty much the same ( I can't hear any difference, some claim they can) |
Start out with what we've discussed, you can always add more.. The Sonos is the best muti-source, muti-zone system out there.. if you want to go better SQ wise for you main system down the road, there's no reason you can't. Doing it this way will get you going. It will give you hands on experience, and a better understanding of the various options and how they work. Also nothing you might add, short of a multi-kilo buck full blown Meridian Sooloos system will obsolete the Sonos, so you're also not going to end up with anything obsoleted, at least not for a long time. |
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