That is cool.
I'm sort of heading towards a MediaMonkey - Laptop - ExternalUSBDrive - Beresford DAC TC-2750 way of getting equal or more quality and functionality than the MW Transporter or Sonos for a total price of $500 (250 for DAC, between 30 and 50 for MediaMonkey depending on which one you get,, and between 100 and 300 for external HD)... Assuming you already have a laptop and docking station. What I do is have a docking station with S/PDIF-out next to my Audio system, and via USB a Costco-purchased HD with 1 TB of space for like 200/300... Also, you can drive such a device with an IPhone now as remote.
Just another option... And then its all 16/44.1 CD-ripped or 24/96 from the web...
What I'm really thinking of in asking the original question is that the 'real' DACs seem to be the Berkeley DAC at 5k which is a but much for many, but seems to be astonishing in what it can do, and the Bryston DAC for 2k. Both can intake 24/192 and of course the more common, and still not yet widely popularized 24/96. I'm trying to focus on 24/96 as I gather more music as that seems to be the format of the near future.
So, for example, in the present, Media-Monkey, Bryston DAC, 24/96 downloads, Laptop w/external HD, should completely kill the Transporter at a cost of just 300 or so more depending on details.
The modwright signature treatment surely sounds like it might do something very helpful, I would believe that would bring it to a pretty good level.
Just thinking... This area is still so new, in 2 years I'm sure all of this will be straightforward and be of very high quality. |
Swamp - Bryston for 2k and other stuff for 300 compared to 2k total is as I said "300 or so more" - just to be clear on what I mean in the comparison, so its not 2k more, its 2.3k-ish total, that is all I mean.
I agree that I have no proof that it will "kill the transporter" but I'd put a small amount of money on it! I 'think' (I don't know) that the Bryston DAC is not just better, but actually in another class. I'll have to let others chime in on that who have heard both, or perhaps who even have the combo and have A/B'd them. Also, it can take in 24/192 from Reference Recordings, 2L, etc., not sure if transporter can do that. That surely would put it in another class.
So, for example, if I could buy the Transporter without the DAC it has for 700 (that assumes that 1300 of it is for the DAC it has, maybe its 1000 or 800 - I don't know) then I would get the Bryston with it and be happy.
Also - if the DACs were separated (or how about at least on 'boards' or modules that could be removed and updated?) then as time goes on you can update them without replacing the whole system. NAD is doing this with their AV signal processing AV systems, and Meridian, a few others have been doing this for 10+ years.
Now, that would be interesting, a Transporter with 3 DACs that you choose from, the Transporter itself, then either no DAC at lets say 700, then Level1 at 1300, Level2 at 2k, and Level3 at 3.5k? That would be extremely interesting. But as you can see, easier to emulate that by just leaving the DAC external.
It will be interesting - lets take the Berkeley Alpha DAC - its 5k right now. In 3 years what will it be? 1k? 1.5k? That seems to be the 'value for dollar' state of the art DAC today, competing with Esoteric and EMMLabs at double, triple and I possibly quadruple the price. The Berkeley Alpha DAC surely blows away - and I mean really blows away the Transporter, particularly at 24/192. So, if you get Transporter and Berkeley Alpha DAC together today, you are throwing away at least a thousand dollars (whatever amount is directed towards the DAC section in transporter). I don't have a thousand to throw away, but for the convenience of what the Transporter offers, I might have 5.5k or 6k for the combo! But its tough knowing you are throwing away 1k or whatever amount. |
Overall I agree with what you are getting at - and you'll love this - to prove your point I have bought a Beresford for my AV DAC needs which at $250 (a far cry from 5k) is probably at the 90% or even 95% level of anything available in 2000... While not matching CD output from my MF A5 it is quite quite stunning in what it can do for $250.
Hey - just for fun (I mean it, just for fun!) lets agree to respond to this thread in 5 years and see how much it costs to get to the quality of the Berkeley Alpha DAC. There might be some whole other approach, using nano-something by then that might even be much less than 1.5k...
And btw, I absolutely love my $250 TC-7520 Beresford and I have started to enjoy it several weeks ago when I got it! :) (The beginning of certain shows like House or Medium - the music is amazing when put through the Beresford comapared to AV without an external DAC.) |
Yeah, I agree. We'd have to know what % it is... And that is indeed the crux of the argument!
If it is incrementally (assuming one already wants the rest of the device, which is an assumption we are making) not a high % to add it to what exists as the rest of the machine, then all is good in the world just as it is right now :). If it is a high or medium % of the total price, then I suggest the things I suggest above, such as same product with no DAC and/or upgradeable DAC boards, etc. etc. |
Oh - and agreed to your last sentence, which makes the issue more complex as well... It, by degree, minimizes the importance of the actual DAC chip and whatever other ICs are there right around it to support the process. |
This is something along the lines of what I'm saying - so there is a market for this... They are basically prepping the Sonos for high quality outboard DAC...
http://www.underwoodhifi.com/mod_sonos.html
"Our Sonos reclocker upgrade is now available. This upgrade completely replaces the mediocre Cirrus Logic CODAC and the associated high-jitter clocks used in the Sonos ZP80. The mod was designed to integrate the Sonos system into a high-end audio system thru an outboard digital-to-analog converter."
I'll read more about the 'classic' and compare that to Media Monkey!
Thanks for all the thoughts... |
Yes - looking at the JRiver funcitonality I would consider the client/server functionality a must. Posted on MM about it, perhaps MM can do it via mapped drive letter? Not sure. But agree the J River functionality looks great, and you could add opera/consert hall DVDs type stuff there whereas MediaMonkey is music only for now. I'll have to look at this very closely as J River does look great. Just spent 3 weeks on Media Monkey set up. Oh well, I'll keep researching.
But between then two, I'm really really thinking now that this is the way to go, no Sonos or Squeezbox or anything. Just NAS on local LAN with JRiver or Media Monkey out via SPDIF on docking station to already-owned DAC. Totally kills the other solutions from what I can tell. |
I also noticed that NuForce is doing exactly what I'm referring to in exactly the terms I'm referring to it in.
"NuForce designs its source devices to conform to industry-wide standards, protocols and formats. Our aim is to achieve perfect compatibility with all available companion devices. Further, we have chosen not to include DACs with our audiophile-quality source devices in order for the end-user to assemble a system consisting of components of his or her choice."
They get it!
http://www.nuforce.com/Product-MSR-CDP.htm
And they don't include the HDs - perfect! No paying 3X for commodity stuff just to have it wrapped in a different color plastic and a name stamped on it!
Now that I'm learning more about how all of this works *all* of these companies, including NuForce (whose stuff in general I highly respect), Linn who also makes high end versions of these things, all of them have to show what they have to offer over a simple computer and Media Monkey or J River, a bit of NAS, and an IPhone-style app...
One area where they win is ease of implementation for the non-technical but for those who can set up their own home network, I'm now thinking none of these devices make sense. Assuming you already need the home network for other stuff, that is. |
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Indeed!
I emailed one place and they said they didn't want to do that particular thing because because their device was based around ultimately what was a 24/96 DAC chip, and anything else gets uprezzed to 24/96 in a pre-processing step - apparently a lot of them work like this - so they would have to change out their main DAC pieces and re-engineer the whole things and uprez to 24/196 or whatever so just to say it takes a whole re-engineer to change out the master chips and go to the next level. And the company I had emailed said when there is more material available they will do it but as it is they are waiting for more material to be available.
And on that note NuForce has a history of relatively frequent upgrades compared to other companies, so perhaps they will do it sometime relatively soon. |
I'm settling on J River (program you add to your computer) with IPhone as remote. Although I do like Media Monkey as well. Basically free, and has same functionality as all of these $300 - $2000 devices.
After lots of poking at things and thinking about it, if you have a computer in a closet near the living room, or out in the open (and we do), I don't see what any of these programs offer over J River or Media Monkey. Total cost: $50 or so... Of course, you need NAS or DAS commodity storage, but that is soo cheap these days, 500 GB is $150 or less, and many of the 'devices' don't come with storage either (and I don't think they should as that limits expandability - or if they do, they should be expandable).
I actually just use my laptop, my laptop docking station has spdif out and my dac re-clocks, so it all works quite well. The NAS is attached to the docking station, so its all very simple and basically free. So I'm off the music server completely now... |
