Music Server Recommendation

I have a Mola Mola Makua (preamp/DAC) that excepts a direct ethernet signal and a Innuos Zenith mk2 SE that outputs an ethernet signal but I have not tried that connection yet.  I have been using a USB connection. My Mola Mola retailer told me in some systems the ethernet connection sounds better and in others the USB is preferred.....I guess I need to try the ethernet connection now.

I read a pro review of an Ayre DAC someplace(which IIRC was the first DAC to market with a native Ethernet interface), in which the reviewer preferred the USB input to the Ethernet input.  Its likely that a native ethernet interface may have variations in quality similar to USB implementations.

@audiotroy 

Dave
Thank you very much for taking the time to educate me and advise possible best course of action to move forward from my Vault2.

Will be in touch very soon!

I thought I would update everyone as to where I am currently.  Below is my current short list (in current order of preference):

1. Music Vault Ultra II 4TB ($5k) Custom built with I2s output
   
2. Innuous MKII Std 4TB ($6k or Used)
   
3. Antipodes EX 4TB ($5k)
4. Wolf Audio Alpha 2 4TB ($5.75k) or the new Luna model Joe is going to spec out ($4.4k) 

Would love to hear from @ctsooner

@bbarden45  "Have you considered the Pink Faun music servers?"
Been spending some time at their site. Very impressive devices an appear to be well built. You are seeing their cards being used in other products. I know Neal uses one of the cards in his Music Vaults. They have an I2s card that would be my preferred connection to my PS Audio DS Jr however it is limited to PCM only.  PS Input goes to DSD128.  No US Dist s Only direct purchases from Denmark is a complication. Trying to price it out with them now

Whatever unit you buy, there will be a Mark 2 or super version out a month later, that's just life. I am still very happy with my Mark 1 Zenith and see no reason to change.

Very true @david12 

I will have to live with whatever choice I make for quite awhile (ignoring FOMA) which is why I am taking my time and considering extending the budget. Although an upgrade path would be ideal as an option

This is what is looking like right now (all 4TB SSD):

1. Pink Faun 2.16 ($6.25k) (I2s)
2. Innuos MKII Std ($6k or Used) (USB)
   
3. Music Vault Ultra II ($5k) (I2s)
4. Antipodes EX ($5k) (Ethernet/USB)
5. Wolf Audio Alpha 2 ($5.75k) or Luna ($4.4k)

Really like the Pink Faun but not sure if I want to bear the time/cost to ship it back & forth from Denmark for repairs/upgrades.....

Leaning towards options with I2s outputs to optimize the PS Audio DAC

Have an opportunity to buy a Innuos MKII at a clearance price so it is coming down to the below for around $5k:

1. Innuos MKII Std (USB)
   
2. Music Vault Ultra II (I2s)

Anyone out here using the Innuos with Roon?  With a PS Audio DAC via USB? Curious your impressions on the Roon Mngt as well as the USB into the PSA

^ I say go for it! Innuos. 
There’s years of consensus out there about Roon. And you could go USB or Ethernet to your PS DAC with a bridge II right? 

Correct @jriggy I would have 2 choices although PS Audio indicates the I2s is the optimal method. 
I do think the Innuos would have a better resale but who knows

I did pull the trigger on a new Innuos Zenith MKII 4TB for $5k. Too hard to pass up at 20% off the prior price. I am glad they shook free once the MKIII was announced.  

Some great info from austinpop over at CA on migrating a Roon library

On the search for a USB cable to my PS Audio DSJr Dac

Plan to get the ISOACOUSTICS Orea to upgrade the isolation

Will update everyone once I get it up and running

@fdemello  Congratulations!!!  Looking forward to hearing how it does in your system.

OP
Try to reach out to a member here for a usb cable, he is supposed to make a killer cable

Grannyring is the name

Good luck and enjoy

@fdemello  congratulation on your purchase!  I love my Zenith mk2 SE / Roon / Stillpoints combo... I found isolation made a big difference in SQ.  I use a Nordost Heimdall 2 USB that I'm also happy with. 

@uberwaltz thanks for the suggestion.  I am kind leaning towards the Curious or Phasure Lush at the moment

@ron17 Thanks Ron.  I do like the Nordost cables

I ended selecting the Phasure Lush USB after reading through this CA thread:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-com...

I have rearranged my rack for the Innuos and ordered the IsoAcosutics Orea Blue's

To quote Tom Petty: The waiting is the hardest part....

Roon lifetime subscription $500
Roon Rock installed on an Intel NUC with i7 chip and an internal 1TB SSD for storage $700
Ethernet to DAC

done.
thrilled!
awesome!!!

By the way, PS audio DACs with the bridge II sound way better than when using the USB input. I used to have a PWD mk II with Bridge II, and my experience with Bridge fed via Ethernet vs USB on that DAC was that it was no contest at all. Since you have a DAC designed to take an Ethernet stream, You owe it to yourself to give it a try.  In fact, there are not many DACs  that work in a similar way to yours regarding the ethernet input. I find it vastly superior to USB.  When I changed my system, I was sure to only go for a digital solution with the same philosophy as Paul’s PS Audio Bridge and Ethernet.

@marktomaras Absolutely Mark. There is some debate and contrarian opinions on this but I do plan to try both USB & Ethernet and listen/compare. Also toying with idea of buying a USB/Toslink converter as a 3rd option. According to Ted Smith toslink also has advantages the other 2 don't (lower noise/jitter I think with limitation to 96kHz). 

PS DSJr Specs:

I2S, and USB - 44.1kHz to 352.8kHz 16bit, 24bit, DSD 64, DSD 128
TOSLINK – 44.1kHz to 96kHz 16bit, 24bit
XLR (AES/EBU)S/PDIF (coax)-- 44.1kHz to 192kHz 16bit, 24bit, DSD 64
BRIDGE II -192kHz 32 bit compatible

Recently received my Antipodes DX back with Gen 3 upgrade and it sounds great to me.  As previously, it displays none of the electronic haze/glare/thinness I have sometimes heard through other digital sources or players. 

To further enhance things, I am running Roon core through the DX but using the SOtM triad of sMS-200ultra endpoint, tX-USBultra USB reclocker, and sPS-500 power supply to power both.  I use the short Curious Link between the sMS-200ultra and the tX-USBultra, and then my TotalDAC cable from the tX-USBultra to my Pavane Level 3 DAC.   Separating the endpoint does make a difference but the differences are subtle.  I need more time to decide whether the main difference is coming from the separated endpoint, the  tX-USBultra USB reclocker or both - i.e., would using the DX as both core and endpoint plus the tX-USBultra alone provide the same level of improvement?

I have another endpoint on the way, Metrum's Ambre, along with their I2S module that I can self-install in my Pavane Level 3 DAC.  This should be interesting as with that scenario I will have no USB cables, just Ethernet from the DX to the Ambre and then I2S from the Ambre into the Pavane.  I could be happy right now with the DX/SOtM solution but the Ambre/I2S option was too interesting to pass up.

As a sidebar, I am on the last month of a 60-day Roon trial.  I had not previously used Roon and I like how it sounds and the wealth of metadata so I am interested in continuing with it.  My question is whether there is any reason that I shouldn't simply move forward with the Roon lifetime membership?  Is there something even better than Roon on the horizon I should know about, or is Roon likely to be a good bet into the foreseeable future?  Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

I am a big Roon fan and a lifetime subscriber. I'm sure there will be competition down the road but I'm also sure Roon will continue to innovate. At $119/yr I didn't see the point in waiting on the lifetime. 

I made the mistake of paying for Roon for three years before I went lifetime!  My advice to anyone serious about digital music and who has a good experience with the trial, would be to just pay for the lifetime straight away.

I am very skeptical about the toslink converter idea. 

@marktomaras understandable.  < $60 to fid out and compare though

 The guys at PS audio tech-support are awesome. I would give them a call and chat them up. They will be happy to give you 20 minutes of free advice. Their machine will handle USB , toslink,  ethernet etc. so it’s good to hear the opinion of the manufacture sometimes. 

@mitch2 the Metrum Ambre looks like an interesting product. If I’m understanding it correctly it would go between a server like the Innuos and a DAC (via Ethernet) but provide multiple output options to the DAC. Intrigued by having the ability to output USB/Toslink/AES/I2s. With some sort of improved handling of the signal. Curious to hear your impressions. Not crazy about adding another box unless it makes the chain significantly better

@marktomaras agree. Have talked to them in the past. Might be worth another call

Thanks guys

Things are sounding really good now.  I have two Roon endpoints here to compare against each other when run from my Antipodes DX as the Roon core.

A few weeks ago, I received the SOtM triad (three boxes) consisting of SOtM's sPS-200ultra (Roon endpoint), tx-USBultra (USB reclocker), and sPS-500 (power supply for both).  This week, I received Metrum's Ambre one-box endpoint. 

The thing that interested me in the Ambre is that I own Metrum's Pavane Level 3 DAC (which is the same as their flagship Adagio except without the volume control - I owned and compared both DACs directly and liked the sound of the Pavane through my preamp better than the Adagio).  Metrum sent along their I2S board, which is a drop-in replacement for their USB board.  The Ambre outputs I2S so when using the Ambre I am able to ditch the USB cable altogether.  For the comparison, I am using a USB cable from the  SOtM tx-USBultra to the Pavane and from the Amber I am using I2S into the Pavane.  The DX has a second Ethernet output that I can use to connect as the input with either endpoint. Separating the Roon endpoint from the DX box may be the optimal way to use the DX. Those starting out might want to consider Antipodes' CX as the Roon server then they would have a variety of endpoint options including but not limited to Antipodes' own EX.  

Out of the box, both endpoints sound great so my guess is there will be no losers here.  However, the two endpoints do sound somewhat different from each other.  Both are dynamic as all get out.  The differences are subtle with the SOtM boxes sounding just a touch beefier and maybe thicker while the Metrum has a bit more sparkle on top.  Bass is excellent from both.  I will share more observations after the Ambre breaks in a bit.....since it has only been playing for a couple of hours.

Update on the Innuos MKII:

Received late last Wed. Installed my music/migrated Roon.  Listened a bit before burn in:
A little bright/thin with an improved soundstage (width) and separation of instruments
At 24 hours:
Much better tonal balance. Very wide/deep soundstage with air around instruments. Tight grip on bass

Would like to get to 200 or so before critically listening again especially since I also have a new USB cable to break in as well.

MKII is very solidly built. Impressive machine. Easy to use. Excellent support. Highly recommended especially if you can get one before the MKIII's come out. A few left from what I understand

Audiotroy,
I was at RMAF in early October and spent a portion of the early morning on Saturday in the two Innuos rooms and had a chance to talk to the owner and designer for Innuos and his wife as well as the importer: I was the only one in the room for a good period of time.  I must say they are very nice people and seem very knowledgeable and very passionate and were pretty helpful in answering questions.  Moreover, the Innuos room sounded very nice.   

They had the new Innuos $13,000 statement and the old MK II SE (the limited edition that is sold out and no longer available) and did a side by side comparison.  They both sounded nice, and they both sounded nice streaming tidal, which is hard to do at RMAF.  But there was virtually no difference between the two, despite the price difference: the MK II SE was around $7,000 and the new statement is $13,000.  I could not discern any meaningful difference between the two servers whether they were streaming tidal or playing music that was on the servers. Knowing that you have more access to servers than I do, I am curious why you think the Innuos statement will be the best server, and specifically why you think it will beat an aurender w-20 or other top servers, at least for sound.  I'm personally not as concerned with which one has the best app etc., but really mostly concerned with improving my sound. 

Also, you state up above, unless i misunderstood your post, and if i did i apologize in advance (I am trying to learn and not start an argument or fight) that the MK III will be the best server at its price point and it will be impossible for anything at that price point to beat it.  Again, have you compared it to others or what are you basing that statement on?  The second Innuos room at RMAF had the new MK III and an old MK II.  I heard the MK III and again it was nice, and the room sounded nice (which is an achievement at RMAF) but there didn't seem to be anything special about the MK III. 

Look forward to your response and thanks in advance. 

To update my post below, I received my upgraded DX3 back this summer, which can serve as both a Roon core and output - i.e., a one-box solution.  However, as with the EX and CX, the DX3 can also be used for Roon Core only with a separate endpoint connected by Ethernet.
I am currently switching between two endpoints - the SOtM triad (three boxes) described in my post below or Metrum's Ambre one-box endpoint.
I believe either of those (core + separate endpoint) options better the DX3 alone, but not by a huge margin.  Based on my listening, the DX3 with separate endpoint offers a bit more detail and dimensionality.  So far, I seem to like the SOtM triad endpoint just a bit more than the Metrum Ambre, but it is really close and the one-box Metrum being easier to set up and operate.  Sonically, the Metrum seems to have a bit more drive and leans more toward neutral while the SOtM (using the upgraded SOtM sMS-200 ultra Neo) seems to display a little more body and texture.   If I didn't have both, I would have been happy with whichever one I did have.

You know I'll just make this easy for all of you I won both the innuos and Antipodes ex

The EX is better. The work they put into making the CX and EX is superior than what innuos had done to date. 

Innuos is ok but I had to put all kinds of filters to get it to sound close to antipodes. Currently using the innuos as a server and EX to render. Eventually the CX will make its way here. 

I think even antipodes old products sound better than the innuos. 

Hehhaw, we have to comment on your statement as some of what you posted needs clarification.

First you have only two posts both denigrating the Innuous, you also make ridiculous statements like you won both how is this possible? Also the Innuous Zenith MK II is vastly outperformed by the newer MK 3 units.

Also there are no "filters" in the Innous that affect sound quality, they are Ethernet noise filters that eliminate the incoming line noise and then present a cleaned and optimized signal to the Dac.

In what way is Antipodes work and technology better?

Over the last five years Innuous has continued to grow with products which use all bespoke parts, the Statement uses a custom designed USB reclocker, as well as an Ethernet reclocker, all units use custom motherboards, custom cases, sophisticated power supplies, vibration reduction, incoming Ethernet noise filters, and outgoing Ethernet filters.
Add to that a great custom built setup software that makes the entire out of the box to a fully running product a five min chore.
Innuous is even working on their own Roon like operating software.

For all of these reasons we see Innuous continuing to grow.

In looking at verifying that claim Antipodes own website is very mum on what they actually put in their boxes, there is no mention of custom motherboards, power supply design, how the USB and Ethernet outputs are derived, clocking is accomplished,or how noise is eliminated.
Even the pictures of the current Ex in Positive Feedback doesn’t show much other than a copper heat pipe on the processor. and an Rcore transformer with a few smoothing filtering caps.

VS

Innuous Zenith which you can see an incoming ethernet filter, a large sophisticated mutli rail power supply with Mundorf caps and a huge amount of voltage regulators
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/antipodes-cx/https:
compare this to the entry level Zen model
https://hifi-ifas.de/test-innuos-zen-mk-iii-high-end-musikserver-highlight-sylvesterknaller
The higher end Zenith ups the anti with a three rail power supply, adds Mundorf capacitors, an SSD drive.

Then to the Statement
http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement

Dave and TroyAudio Doctor NJ Innuous dealers

@audiotroy You want Antipodes pics....go here...
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/antipodes/
In the end, what really matters is how they sound and how well the interface works for the end user.

While @hehaw77 is entitled to his/her opinion just like everyone else on this forum, that opinion is suspect based on my experience. As a former Auralic G1 and Roon Nucleus Plus owner, the Innuos Zenith MkIII is a superior server/renderer/player by a wide margin. I do miss the multiple digital outs that were present on the G1, the Innuos team obviously spent their time maximizing the USB and maximize it they did. Its exceptional and so easy to integrate. Buy it or don’t buy it, no skin off my nose but I just can’t imagine a simpler better sounding solution for anywhere near the money. Several boxes went away, replaced by one clean, dead quiet and richly rendered signal to my dac. @audiotroy is right.

@mitch2 


Thanks for posting the link.

I haven't used one but is anyone else curious why 6moons/Srajan uses an all in one 27' iMac as his server/source? I can't imagine that having the monitor, cpu, a hard drive, ethernet, etc etc built in makes for a very quiet environment electrically. Even having a monitor near a playback chain could prove problematic. If that is his day to day listening chain...Anyway...I'm sure the Antipodes are fine pieces of gear.

No problem @ghasley 
I don't see this as a contest any more than what amplifier somebody likes best.
I looked at the  Innuos Zenith MkIII and also the much more expensive  Innuos Zenith Statement that all the reviewers say is outstanding.  They both seem to be very purpose-built pieces using advanced technologies, as are the Antipodes pieces.
The quality of a playback chain can be limited by the source, DAC, amplification, speakers, room, etc., which makes the "what is best" question sort of a moot point without adding "for my system, needs, and budget."
Based on reviews, user comments, and other information I have seen, I suspect both Antipodes and Innuos pieces are excellent at their price points and possibly well above some of the other competitors. 
What I can say for sure is that my current source of Antipodes DX Gen3 as server via Ethernet into either Metrum Ambre or SOtM triad as endpoint, sounds way better than my dedicated and fully tricked out Mojo Mac mini and also better than the several high-end CD players I was using prior to switching to non-physical media.  For me, the Ambre offers the benefit of going I2S into my Metrum Adagio DAC while the SOtM stuff outputs USB.  I do like non-MQA Roon playing my ripped discs or Tidal, and I am keeping my powder dry on Qobuz until they get a larger (rock/blues/popular) library, and on Amazon until I learn more about the size of the library, ability to play full albums, how many of the selections are actually hi-rez, and (hopefully) integration with Roon. 

@ghasley @mitch2 @hehaw77 and others... Informative posts on both Innuos and Antipodes.

Regarding,

is anyone else curious why 6moons/Srajan uses an all in one 27’ iMac as his server/source?

Srajan has addressed this in the past. I don’t remember where / which review. The best I can point to is his Letters section, copied below. It is the 9th ’Letter / Response’ from the top (as of now) and relates to an Antipodes inquiry.

As his response indicates (and from memory) he is WiFi averse. I have to provide a link since his site locks out copying content.

https://6moons.com/lettersandfeedback/

Hello everyone. Glad to have found this site. I’m new to audio and computer audio as well so all this is making my head spin, but well worth the effort to find great audio. I was set on the Innous offering until I visited a dealer in SF. They had the Statement and the Antipodes Dx hooked up to Niam player (the  rest of their system was Noam output to a pair of Focals- so optimized setup) and the difference was night and day, where the Dx just offered more of the qualities we want in music listening. Needless to say the Statement was very lacking in terms of soundstage, base extension, etc.  We did notice a smoothing effect that the Statement did with the music which sounds like artifice. Most suprising was I found my SGC AP I7 server sounded just as good if not better than both players, except in the noise floor.  My two companions agreed.  Given this experience I’m wondering if there is a deminishing if return on investment.  Can someone comment on my findings. 

Also what is all the buzz about going Ethernet to optical as offered by SGC and products like the SOTM sNH 10 G which with the SFP module to isolate Ethernet noise. Has anyone gone down this route.