Music from hard drive better than CD?

I just tried doing this today for the first time in my system.
I must say overall that I did not like it. I really hoped I would. I wanted to like, I tried to like it. But for me it just didn't cut it.

I used a iBook with a Digidesign Mbox and my Wadia DAC.
All files were uncompress and in Raw AIFF form.

Technically speaking everything sounded better. The soundstage and imagining and depth were great. They were in fact better than I have ever heard them. But the PRAT was gone!

I just could not get involved in the music. When we tried a disc strait from the CD drive it sound better (PRAT wise). My guess is music coming off the hard drive looses it timing?

It's hard to describe, and you kinda have to hear it. It should of been great. Every aspect was better (bass, clarity, soundstaging, etc), but the music was lost. It sounded more like hifi and less like music. Over all it was a let down.

A friend was with me when we did this test. He has about a 10K 2 channel system. In the end we both felt the same way.

Has anyone else experience this?

Of course YMMV, but for me I am going to stick with my CD player. I won't be adopting HD playback any time soon.

Happy listening,
Nick

Hi Guys,

To answer some of your questions. The Mbox, takes its power over the USB cable as well as passing the information via it. I used the SPDIF digital out on the mbox to go to my Wadia.

On the laptop we set everything up for the best sound quality as recommended by Steve Nugget of Empirical Audio in his posts.

What it sounded like was the timing of the music was destroyed when coming off the hard drive. There was nothing else on the laptop running when we were doing this. We even turned off the screen to help keep noise down. We tried different file formats and nothing seemed to help.

When we tried to listed to the same disc playing in the CD drive it sounded better. It did not have the all of the virtues (dynamics, staging, etc..) of the harddrive, but it did have timing (although not that great).
But what good is everything else if the music is lacking timing?

So the fact that it sounded better of the CD drive then the HD makes me believe their was nothing wrong with the Mbox. It makes me think that music coming off the HD itself is the problem. Like I said, everything (and I mean everything, detail, depth etc...) was better when coming off the HD, BUT the timing was nowhere to be found. If the timing could be made right I would be a believer. Like I said, I really wanted it to work. I guess the old saying is right: There is no free lunch.

Have you guys ever personally tried doing this? If so what were your results?
Please tell me I am wrong, as I would really like to be. However somehow I doubt the timing issues will be fixed anytime soon.

Cheers,
Nick

Hello Jax.

I read over the links you sent me. I did indeed set everything up correctly.

I would be willing to give computer playback another chance. But until I hear it with good PRAT, will not be investing it it. It's really a shame. I was so close, but yet ever so far away.

Also, just a side note. I don't think the Mbox will upsample the outgoing signal. The Mbox is capable of 24/96 but thats more a function for the inputs. It is actually more of a pro-audio tool for two channel recording. I believe the digial output is non upsampled.

Happy Listening.
Nick

Hi Guys,

All the settings are at the default. It does not give me an option for the buffer size. I get the default option of 512 (which I presume is Kilobytes.)

You can view the unit on the Digidesign site:
http://www.digidesign.com/products/mbox/

Digidesign makes some VERY high quality expensive gear.
They are a world class company used by many famous studios.
The Mbox is the cheapest item they make and it costs $500.

I very much doubt the Mbox is the weak link.
My reasoning for that is:
1. Music sounded better coming off the CD laptop drive rather than the HD.
- I believe point 1 rules out the mbox as the culprit as well as everything forward in the chain. Which only leaves the computer and data files themselves.
2. The Mbox is of a high caliber and is used by major recording professionals world round.

I would be willing to try another unit. But based off of point 1, I think the timing of the music is lost coming off the HD. It just does not have PRaT. I really did want this to work.
Absolutely EVERYTHING other than the PRAT is world class and I have NOT heard better period. Just the PRat is missing in action. I am most disappointed in this. I really wanted to go down this road.

I am going to give it another shot tomorrow. Seeing as I believe the HD is the culprit I am going to try all the formats. Before I was using an uncompressed AIFF along with some Apple loss-less.
But seeing as that is what is recommended by Steve at Empirical as well as Wavelength audio I don't think it's going to fix it.

I also have a Parasound (CEC) transport coming. If I am lucky I will get it tomorrow.
My hope was because my Wadia has multiple inputs. I was going to use the Parasound for discs when needed and the computer for most playback, But due to my experimenting I will probably end up using the Parasound elusively.

I will post my results tomorrow.
Cheers,
Nick

If someone want to PM me their number maybe I can call them tomorrow and double check everything over the phone. Please also include you time zone. I am in the Mountain Standard zone.

Hello Ghunter

I have read the manual and I am not knocking it. Please don't get me wrong, I think its great for the price. I should also point out that while it is expensive it does come with a full version of Pro Tools which is worth quite a few hundred in itself.

I don't think it's as good as their more expensive equipment. You of course get what you pay for. But it's a great tool as part of a home studio on the cheap.
I know many pro sound techs that take them on tour. They use them for making a personal 2 ch mix of concert in order to help them get better sound the next time around.

So I am not sure where you got the idea that I am knocking it or I don't know how to use it.

All I am saying is, I am not convinced about using a PC based audio system.
If you re-read my above post, I have come to the conclusion thats the Mbox is not the weak link. I think its a problem with computer HD itself.

Everyones milage with very, just for me with the equipment I had it was not working.
Great sound, but no music (lack of PRaT). I would really like to hear your system because like I said, I want this to work.

On a side note: My wadia does not upsample past 44.1 or 48 but it is 18 bit.

Just out of curiosity, what other equipment are you using?

Cheers,
Nick

Thanks G,

I am going to try it again tonight. As far as the itunes setting goes, I had them exactly how people recommend. I am a nut about proper ripping.
I have a 80 drive in my Powermac just for uncompress music.

Cheers,
Nick

Hey Jax,

The 80 gig drive is just for music. My system and files are on another drive.

My power mac is not hooked up to my stereo. I just use it for listening when I am on the computer and for loading up my ipod. My computer speakers are Monsoon Audio's, which were made under license from Eminent Technology. I also use my Grado 225 headphones.

I tried using listening for differences between Apple lossless and AIFF with my ipod and my Grado's and I could not tell a difference. I could also not tell the difference between them on my computer speakers.

I can tell the difference between AAC and AIFF. I find that if I must use compression AAC at 256kbps is much better than MP3 of the same bit rate.

On my main stereo I might be able to hear the difference between AIFF and Apple lossless. I will have to give it a try.

Also the 80 gigs just hold my favorite music for loading up my ipod. I have about 400 CD's (and growing) so there is not room for all of them.

Also my Parasound (CEC) 2000 belt drive transport came in this morning. I was using it over lunch and initial impressions are really good. It's very smooth and has plenty of dynamics. I did find that an after-market cord made a big difference. I can't wait for tonight so I can listen more.

Cheers,
Nick