@melm
The moral of this story is that to hear it at its best you cannot match the Musetec with components appropriate to only a $3000 DAC. In this I agree with @sns . In your place I might consider selling all your pre- stuff and getting something better. But I’m not there and have not heard it all as you have.
This advice from you and @sns rings true. I believe that if you want to exploit all that a high quality DAC has to offer, you need a top flight quality line stage. I do not believe you can dance around this point. No doubt the Freya , Saga and Topping represent “good value “ and are less expensive. I just don’t feel that you will utilize the full sonic potential using them in place of higher tier line stage options.
Charles
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@rrboogie @sns Thanks for your recommendation for the Coincident Staement Line Stage. It is one that is on my shortlist
@sns is correct with regard to the Coincident Statement line stage. It is in my opinion a truly superb sounding component. One of the most genuinely natural sounding audio components I’ve heard. I hope that you find an opportunity to hear it for yourself.
Charles
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@sns
Perhaps one can ’clean’ things up too much, could be at some level just a bit of noise can be pleasing vs. the coloration these filters induce. Use of Flux 50 and Muon will provide more evidence in determining this true or not.
Could be some truth with the idea of "excessive" cleaning/filtering. It seems to me that the excellent BPT 3.5 Signature (With its balanced AC isolation transformer and conditioning) is enough. I look forward with much interest and curiosity to your listening outcome.I’ll concede you won’t know for certain without actually hearing the comparison.
Charles
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@sns
”In more general theme, I’ve found over the years, less is often more with audio. When you get the fundamentals right, less of these add on devices needed.”
Very astute observation. This is why I was pretty confident that you’d find the BPT unit enough on its own. It is certainly possible to go overboard at times with regard to High End audio endeavors.
BTW, quite a compelling case you made for the Musetec 005 being suitable for Uber level audio systems. Although obviously there will be disagreement with this. Certainly one could imagine that it’d be reasonably competitive. Good insight as usual.
Charles
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I believe that @jjss49 gave his totally honest impression of two very fine DACs. I also believe that @lordmelton did the exact same. There’s nothing surprising that they reach somewhat different perspectives. This is what I’d expect e when comparing highly competent DACs as judged through different ears and via different audio systems. The essence of High End audio subjectivity, It seems very clear that the Musetec 005 is a very high level DAC in sonic performance if not necessarily price.
Charles
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@sns Per usual in audio, no absolute winners, wouldn't expect anything else.
Agree 100%
Why the “need” to always have to crown and declare an absolute and undisputed winner. I’ve never found this to be the reality in High End audio. @jjss49 your efforts are much appreciated.
Charles
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Call me old school but I don't want my digital signal enhanced in any way, I want to hear what comes directly off the CD or file or stream.
I share the same mindset and perspective. There is a huge DAC marketplace with many choices and one can find what they want. I thought @jjss49 comments were exceedingly complimentary toward the 005.His opinion does not invalid another's opinion or listening impressions. If High End Audio is anything, it is unavoidably subjective. Which is a good thing.
Charles
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I get how folks can get damned defensive and pouty when they learn that something they bought and think is just the cats meow isn’t the best, its lame but just human nature I think. I spent money to buy this so now it is the best.
Interesting take. My inference from responders is different.
Charles
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lordmelton"Valves can paper over cracks but solid state will reveal everything"
This statement is incomplete, deceiving, and reflects a misunderstanding of the nature of the qualities of the various types of amplification. It is possible for valves (tubes) to be "revealing" it is possible for ss to be "revealing" and both tubes and ss amplifiers can be intended, designed, and manufactured to be as neutral as the designer desires or as colored depending on his desires and preference but this is a common misunderstanding, fallacy, and illusion.
I appreciate the comments from lordmelton (And many others here) on this thread. I assume that he’s reflecting on his own listening experiences and that’s perfectly fine. . I’ll just say that his valve and solid state impressions differ significantly from mine.😊
Charles
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@lordmelton
You are clearly entitled to express your impressions and opinions just the same as everyone else posting on this open forum. What makes these open audio forums stimulating and often informative is the wide spectrum of different experiences express by members. Tube versus the transistor is about as common a topic as any you’ll find in audio discussions.
You have contributed numerous interesting viewpoints and perspectives which I suspect many appreciate. You do seem to become rather thin skinned and defensive (My perception anyway) with those who have opposing comments. High End audio is about as subjective as an endeavor could possibly be.
You have owned valves/tubes but find that your preference is solid state, that’s good for you. I’ve owned solid state components yet I find tubes the superior choice for me. Tubes have coloration and distortion to varying degrees. Most certainly the same can be said about transistor sound. We all at some point decide which one we find least compromising for our own needs.
I am familiar with Spectral products and my listening impressions are different than yours. No big deal. You probably find solid state more “accurate “ than tubes, that’s your call. I find tubes more “natural “ and realistic “. What is so ultimately satisfying is that we both can get exactly what we want.
Charles
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but in this case would personally need to see objective listening tests or do them myself before believing that a component with accidental errors in measurement sounds better than one without these errors.
Yes, listen for yourself and form your own conclusions. Whichever one you choose at least the decision is based on how it sounds in your audio system. Measured test bench results are less important than what you will hear with your own ears. How does this DAC sound playing your music in your audio system? Most important criteria.
Charles
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. I don’t understand the point of celebrating poor measurements as some sort of badge of honor.
I don’t get that impression. He actually (And wisely) compared the two DACs and said the Musetec 005 clearly was better sounding than the Topping DAC. These are audio products so listening to them is the best way to determine which one of them you’d prefer to own in your audio system.
Other listeners have described the Topping DAC sound quality in the same manner as @americanspirit . Others have enjoyed their sound. Nothing new here with the subjectivity and inevitable different outcomes/opinions.
Charles
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@melm
In choosing parts for his DACs he listens and chooses those that add to SQ as he hears it even if they cost in measurement stats.
The only decision to make “if” obtaining the best possible sound quality with a given design/product is the true objective.
Charles
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The engineer admits to choosing parts based on SQ, not measurements.
Yes, so simply and openly acknowledged by the builder. Why so difficult for some to comprehend?
Charles
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@melm
In my last post I said I had "calibrated" my ears by going to a concert given by a small orchestra in an appropriately small performance space. I had missed concert going during the Covid period. When I go to a concert like this I can’t help comparing it to listening at home. Calibrating one’s ears is not a bad way to put it. When The Absolute Sound was run by Harry Pearson and was worth reading, each of his reviewers was required to attend concerts of unamplified music on a regular basis, to "calibrate" their ears
Excellent points made, particularly this one concerning calibrating one’s ears by listening to live acoustic instruments (And human vocalists). I’ve have done this for many years. This year I’ve attended 7 live performances and going to a piano recital this evening. Jazz club show next week.
One thing that is unfailingly consistent with live un-amplified music, it’s very full bodied with vivid, rich and colorful tone. There is so much beauty, emotion and presence when listening to these live instruments. I can understand how someone used to modern hyper detailed emphasize components would actually find the live instruments dull by comparison.
In my opinion the pursuit and emphasis on achieving ever more “detail” and “inky black” backgrounds has unintentionally moved away from a natural realistic sound presentation. Melm, I definitely understand your perspective.
Charles
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.@sns
I too am not impressed with Mac, middling sound for the cost.
Not an uncommon sentiment. Better is achievable in the tube preamplifier realm. You’ve chosen very well with your Coincident Statement Line stage.
Charles
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I'll be modifying a premium USB cable tonight, I expect amazing results.
Let us know your outcome.
Charles
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@sns
The MK III version is very new. Separated streamer box from the Farad LPS via DC cable. This company is much more familiar in Europe than USA. They have a reputation for high quality engineering/design. Can be used with Wi-Fi or Ethernet wired.
Charles
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I was just offering alternative suggestions.MK II is one box model. MK III 2 chassis. Lots of good quality stuff available. Very good LPS attention (Farad) at this price point. I’m sure the Holo has a nice power supply as well.
Charles
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The topic of premium fuses has been discussed countless times across many audio forums. There are some manufacturers who are very receptive to their use and contribution. Here's one example of a manufacturer (Netherlands) who's well regarded in the European market. They are proponents of the Synergistic Research purple fuse.
https://magnahifi.com/mano-ultra-mk3-music-super3-streamer-high-res/
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@jjss49
people can certainly spend money on whatever they want for their enjoyment
👍
Charles
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@melm
The poster obviously doesn't know that R2R (used in the Giscard) is the oldest of the digital to analog technologies. it was used in Philips CD players more than 40 years ago at the outset of the digital age. So talk of a dated design is just kind of ignorant. And obviously there is nothing wrong with a "dated" design if it offers high sound quality.
+1!!!
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