Amazing, that not a single person that posts on this forum or on Audio Asylum has heard a player that Roy Gregory of HiFi+ calls, "a performance marker against which other products should be compared, a benchmark in the truest sense of the word." |
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Mds, thanks for looking and posting here.
I have also seen those reviews. The designer told me the Model Ten (which I owned) would be superior to the Eleven (for redbook CD playback). The designer also considers the Erato II superior to the Polyhymnia for CD or DVD playback and for video. The only benefit of the Eleven and the Polyhymnia are that they also play SACD, which the Model Ten and current Erato II do not. Therefore, I suspect the Model Eleven and Polyhymnia reviews would not be good indicators of how the Erato II sounds. Since I would not have a chance to audition the Erato II before owning, I was really hoping a couple of folks here had given the Erato II a run in and could compare it's sound to one or two of the usual suspects around the same $7K price range. |
Finally, someone who has heard (owns) this player. Thanks for responding! You must have the attenuator module if you are running direct. I would be using it into a preamp. Three questions I have for you are whether the player is good at conveying body, dimensionality, and fullness; whether the bass is deep, dynamic and defined; and how the player compares with other excellent players you have owned?
Oh and finally, since providing detail on the MUSE website has never been their strong suit, if you have the newer style faceplate, where are the control buttons? Is this a pressure sensitive screen in the middle or is everything controlled by remote? The website shows a picture of the new faceplate, but it is hidden by the open drawer and the site doesn't show or discuss the operation of the player without the conventional buttons they have had on their players for years. Thanks again. |
So you have the newer style faceplate shown when you select the "products" tab on their website? That is the only picture of the faceplate I can find, since they had not yet updated it at the time of the pictures in the HiFi+ review. Unfortunately, the one picture on their website is not of sufficient resolution to discern the buttons on the front. Are the buttons located within the white metal faceplate area, or within the black looking central opening (is that plastic)? If it would be possible to e-mail a picture, I would be very grateful. I am surprised you have the bulky remote (I also have one with my Model 3 Signature preamp) because I understand the Erato II now comes with the much simpler Remote 1. However, I am glad to hear the sonics are excellent. Thanks again, - Tim |
Not sure what I am going to do with the preamp. I just had it upgraded, it sounds good, and I really wanted to like it better than my Lamm LL2 Deluxe, but after recently reinstalling the Lamm, I believe the MUSE is just not as good sonically. Maybe the MUSE is a little tighter and more dynamic in the bass, and perhaps better overall for rock music, with more gain, but otherwise the Lamm just plain sounds better to me. Too bad, because the features and operation of the MUSE preamp are hard to beat with the adjustable gain, 0.5 dB volume steps that are displayed as actual attenuation and gain values (which I like better than any volume control I have used), and remote control of phase, mute, input, volume, balance, skip and direct track. It has HT pass through and is also fully balanced, which works better for me with my balanced Clayton monoblocks. From a feature standpoint alone, I have never used a better preamp. I will probably put it back in my system in a week or so and see if I miss the Lamm. |
Bob,
Currently,
Lector CDP 7TL MkIII player,
Lamm LL2 Deluxe or Muse Model 3 Signature preamp,
Clayton M300 amps (300/600 wpc @8/4 ohms Class A),
Aerial 9 speakers
The Lector is very nice, so I cannot go wrong there either. I guess I had visions of an all SS front end that would give me the same level of enjoyment as my tubed CDP and preamp, but that would be easier to operate, with more features, and that could stay turned on all the time. Have you heard the Model 3 Sig, and did Kevin discuss that as an option when you were looking at the attenuation module on the Erato II? |
My SS Clayton monos are also amps that transcend the old SS vs. tubes debate. You know you are not listening to tubes, but you focus more on their strengths than on what you are giving up by not having tubes. They do not have quite the (larger than real?) body of my former hybrid Lamm M1.1's but they do bass, drive, clarity and high frequencies better, while still providing better body and dimensionality than most SS. I like using a preamp simply because I like the sound vs. a passive, I perceive more drive and depth to the music with a preamp. I assume Kevin's attenuator module is simply a passive attenuator? I maybe should e-mail them and learn more. Unfortunate, but a more informative website with better pictures and descriptions would probably be enough to increase their sales. IMO, Lamm is one example of a Mfg with an excellent and totally informative website. |
Bob, I have e-mailed them with some questions on Sunday and have not heard back. Since a couple of the questions were technical in nature, Kevin will probably be elected to answer them and I suppose he has been busy. The Erato II will be an upgrade from a Thalia/Nine. I am inclined to go ahead with the upgrade but I want to know more about the remote and about the attenuator module, which I am now considering as part of the upgrade. Thanks for checking back. |
As an update, I did hear back from Kevin at MUSE and we are discussing details for the upgrade to Erato II. The attenuator module is indeed an active device that has a maximum output of 6.5V RMS, an output impedance of 150 ohms (or 150+150 ohms in balanced mode), and it can be controlled by the remote. Even with the attenuator module, it still comes with the fixed outputs so it can be used with a preamp. |
Thanks Defride, for weighing in - any information is helpful. I have been considering the Erato II in order to simplify my system by running all solid state equipment that should better serve my erratic listening habits. I have been curious about how few folks here own MUSE equipment even though their gear has been universally well-regarded. I have been told, MUSE has a larger following overseas than here. In the Stereophile review of the MUSE Polyhymnia, they concluded the Polyhymnia was basically at the same sonic level as the Ayre C5XeMP, but with a slightly different sound of it's own, and MUSE considers the Erato II [sonically] "the better of the two devices," when compared with the Polyhymnia. HiFi+ considered the Erato II basically equivalent to the very highly regarded (and much more expensive) AR CD-7, and called the Erato II a "digital benchmark." Therefore, based on those reviews at least, the Erato II is a very well-regarded player.
Another reason this has been a tough decision for me is that my Lector CDP 7TL MkIII still sounds great, and IMO beats the Thalia/Nine (that I purchased as a back-up) by providing a more realistic portrayal of wood, brass, and strings, and better micro dynamics (the Lector is simply more fun to listen to). Therefore, I am taking it on trust that the Erato II is a large step up from the Thalia/Nine and will be at least the equivalent to my Lector (and hopefully much better). Kevin at MUSE and I are working out final details and I am sending the Thalia/Nine in for the upgrade this week. I must also add that after owning MUSE equipment on and off for years, and going through several upgrades to their digital units and preamp, IMO a person would be hard pressed to find a better company (along with Ayre and a few others) to work with based on their responsiveness and commitment to upgrading existing products while still staying on the cutting edge of new developments, year after year.
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Hi guys, I have been communicating with Kevin and my upgrade is underway. The result will be an as-new Erato II with the new style faceplate shown on their website. I am still debating whether to have the attenuator module installed. When I asked Kevin about the differences between playing the Erato II through the attenuator module and through his Model Three Signature preamp (which I own) he said, There should be no discernible difference between the two configurations you describe, it (the attenuator module) has nearly identical characteristics as the Model Three Signature. He went on to say, I will pass along that some individuals have expressed that they like the attenuator module even better than the Model Three Signature. This may be because of the fewer number of interconnects (just one pair to the amplifier) it may be because the module is so low in cost. I myself find them very similar, too similar to make a call. Certainly the feature set of the Model Three Signature is much greater than the attenuator module, but for a really simple system, it (the attenuator module) is nearly a perfect device. Since I already own the Three Signature, it seems I would not need the attenuator, but I am curious about whether it would sound as good, or better, than the preamp, and since my only source will be the player, it really would be a simple solution for me - player to amps to speakers. Another consideration is that even with the attenuator installed, I would still have the option to instead use the unattenuated outputs to drive an external preamp like my Lamm LL2 Deluxe, which I find to be sonically excellent. |
It is in transit and scheduled to arrive on Thursday. I had them include the attenuator option since the cost as part of the upgrade was not that much and also because I can still choose to use it through a preamp with the fixed 2V output module without any sonic penalty. I will be comparing the output attenuator with the Model 3 Signature preamp and also with another very nice sounding preamp I have here now. The output attenuator module is in fact an active module that attenuates a higher 6V output. BTW, the upgrade took so long because they used a custom black finish that matches my other gear. They even sent me a sample of the finish for approval before completing the preamp. |
Hi Bob. Yes, I have had the Erato II in house for a month or so and I am still in the evaluation phase. MUSE did this in black for me and IMO it looks great. At first, I did a brief sonic comparison between the MUSE Model Three Signature preamp and the internal active preamp in the Erato II. My quick assessment confirms Kevin Halverson's assertion that the sonic differences are hard to identify - they sound quite similar. However, I had an impression the Model Three preamp displayed more depth, but maybe because the internal preamp was not broken in? I also like the separate power supply and large volume display associated with the Model Three Sig so, all other things being equal, I would choose to use the Model Three Sig preamp over the internal preamp. However, for those not owning the external preamp, the internal preamp would provide the same level of sonics and a seriously easy operating interface - just the player and your amp(s). Having one remote control both player and preamp is very nice.
Not being able to leave well enough alone, I am currently running the Erato II through a Tom Evans Vibe with Pulse II, which is still the best sounding solid state preamp I have ever heard. The MUSE preamps are nice, and are tonally similar to the TEAD (I could live with either), but IMO the Vibe/Pulse offers improvements in resolution and bass definition - two areas where it is reported to be very good. Unfortunately, there is no remote control of the Vibe/Pulse and I am back to using the Jensen transformers into my amps, since the Vibe/Pulse is single-ended only.
I am also using and comparing both the Erato II and my Lector CDP 7TL MkIII as sources. I am fortunate that both of these players sound wonderful. However, they each have comparatively distinctive strengths sonically, mechanically, and ergonomically, and of course the Erato II has an advantage in that it can play hi-rez discs. I am not yet able to choose one over the other (and may keep both). I wish this were easier but I cannot complain too much since everything sounds so good. |
Still have mine. Never a problem with the disc tray. I believe kevin spec'ed computer type dvd transports but it has always worked well and sounded great - I wouldn't worry about it. My computer set-up has just lately begun to rival the Erato II to the point where they are of similar quality but slightly different flavors. If I had to pick one over the other today, on SQ alone, it would be the Erato II. |
