Your absolutely right Tireguy, sorry. |
Urban's respnse:
Ok now we are getting somewhere,thanks for all of good posts. Tireguy I'm sorry about the Adcom stuff (Mis-read an earlier set of posts ) I'm not a jerk who always thinks I'm right. I wanted to make a powerful statement "Your wrong" to get people writing. I would just like the "Stereo only" folks out there to consider this listening approach to music. Truth be told, right now I like my system better in stereo mode because we just moved and I have yet to build my new theater/sound room. (My HT is temporarily set up) My system before I ripped it all apart was, and will be set up soon again I hope, Martin Logans all around, Proceed AVP, Proceed amps, and runco projection. Set in a large room (18'X25') Now gentlemen hear me out, if you try to do both a HT & Audio room, in order to get the HT side to sound right you need to move the front speakers further apart. (About 10' for my system) Once you do this, stereo sound will not image correctly, you must then use the excellent processing ablities of today's newer pre-amps to compensate. Once you switch to the stereo surround mode, the center channel helps to lock down your sound stage, plus with good surrounds ( You should never know they are on while listening to music, so those of you who say the rear channels were annoying were not listening to a properly set up system.) they should add just enough to make the room "Come alive" which to me is exciting, and to all those I've demo the sytem for. If you are trying to listen to a multichannel disc/dvd on a system set up for stereo, of course it will sound terrible. If some of you "Stereo folks" ( I don't mean that badly either ) put as much energy into setting up a multi-channel system as you do with stereo, I think you would be shocked with your results and might just come to the same conclusions I have and will no longer be "Missing out". Now with that said, any further comments? |
Urban's response:
Cause trouble ? Start fights ? Inflammatory ? Did I miss anything ? Just trying to learn here; after all, the only way to truly learn is to question "Smart people" that disaggree with you. Hence, my reasoning for being in the audio forum. An interesting challenge, I just thought of, maybe I'll write to an audio/video magazine and pose this idea. Set up two rooms, one state of the art Reference 2 ch system in one, and have another identical room play the same music on a reference multi-ch system. (Of course use same type of componets) Run 100 people through and find out which system they like best. My money would be on the multi-ch. system. It would be interesting. I know what the "Stereo only" folks would say if more people chose the multi, they would say, yah...the people they used, must have been idiots, they don't have the precise technical ears we do, they don't know how a real system should sound. Alright....alright I know I should not have said that !!! To me part of the fun of this hobby is to see what kind of "Wows" for reactions I get when demoing to others. (I said Part of the fun) Some of the best 2 ch. systems I've heard, which were, I'm sure technically correct, and yet boring. Ok I'll say it, because some of you say I should, IMO.
Writing "IMO" is kinda of redundent, isn't it ? Who else's opinion could it be ?
Comments ? Questions ? Criticisms ? |
Pcc question? I don't understand, why do I need another pre-amp ? I have read so many reviews that stated, refering to my AVP, that in order to get a better pre-amp for "Stereo" I would need to spend upwards of $15,000. That was the main reason for purchasing the AVP. Maybe I am mis-understanding. Today I sat down for some critical listening, trying to see your point of views, I could never keep track of whether or not I was in 2ch or 5 ch. In two ch. you swear the rears and center are on. If you separate those front speakers by more than 6' it sounds just alittle better in 5 ch. (I always keep the speakers away from back wall, critical with ML's and most speakers.) Listened to Roy Orbison today and could help but thinking wow his new DVD would make all the "Stereo folks" go crazy. The sound on this DVD is astounding !!! I did not feel like I was in the audience, I felt like I was on stage !!! Un-believable !!! I sure wish the non-believers could hear what I'm hearing. |
Pcc,
Explain in alittle more detail your system for me, Id be real interested to hear what you have done. I know it is impossible to reach my limit because there isn't one. One of the big improvements I can make is in building the right room. I have already built one room, so I have learned some things. My last room was pretty good but it had "room" for improvements. Just so you don't think (As the Tireguy put it) I'm a "clown", my last home theater was used as a "Reference system" for a speaker manufacturer in our area. They would bring over dozens of new speakers so I could evaluate them ( Took lots of measurements)and in some case's help them with the design, wiring etc.,infact; on one occasion I had a well respected audio critic, whom I'm sure you have read much of his stuff in magazines, doing some "On sight" reviews for this speaker company in my theater/audio room. I say this not to brag, but I just don't want you thinking I'm someone with a new $799.00 Yamaha reciever who heard a "Hall/church/jazz club surround" for the 1st time and said, "Hey this is the future of music!!!" One other thing, I do listen to critic's because they do have more experience than me, I have a job/family that have nothing to do with audio, so it is impossible to have heard as much equip. as they have.
Thanks Pcc,
BTW: Tireguy; my system will blow yours so far out of the water, that it would make your head spin!!!! So don't call me a clown !!! The installer, who set up Gov. Tommy Thompsons system said mine was better and the nicest he had seen in this area (State). (Tommy had a nice system $$$$$)
So Tireguy, what experience do you have, who knows, maybe you have enough experience to be able to call me a clown, but you have not proved it here. |
Thanks Pcc,
We do have many things in common when it comes to the front end of a system. I too believe, one of the best stereo's I put together was bi-wiring the Aerius with tube amps. Infact, I had Quest's (Fronts) Logos, Aerius (Surrounds) with the Quest's bi-amped and I've sold my Quests in favor of the Aerius. The Aerius presented a more realistic sound stage, but I think room dimensions and treatments can make the difference as to which way to go. (quest vs aerius) Currently my plan is to use Aerius i bi-amped for front and another set of aerius for the rear, Logos for center, using 2 sunfire mk2's for bass, plus bass shakers in the furniture (I can turn those on when it's late at night so I don't wake others.) More Later, I'm at work. |
Pcc,
If you got an extra $1,000 dollars lying around, putting a set of (Used of course) Aerius in the back will really improve an audio sound stage in 5.1 ch. Because I'm still in transition with my system I'm not using ML's in the rear right now and hence would rather listen to just stereo on 2 ch audio. I have yet to have one person say they prefer 2 ch. over 5.1 ch when using ML's all around, it not only sounds better but looks impressive as well. Some stuff that is recorded in 5.1 is done so poorly that I would agree stereo is better, but some of the newer stuff was recorded properly, and stages beautifully. Roy Orbison is not recorded that way, but still is fun. On that recording they put a different instrument in every speaker, and it is a favorite buy far from guest's in our house. |
Pete,
What type of music do you listen too, normally. Also I value your oppinion in these matters and would love to hear your system. Just curious, did you audition the Proceed AVP before buying the Lexicon ? I will concede after many more hours of listening that I can't decide what I like better, stereo surround or stereo in my set up right now, but again I'm going by memory because as I have said I don't have ML for surround right now but remember how good it was before. Also, I know what it is I liked about my old system, I sat 12' away from each speaker and I think this is one of the most important aspects to a correctly set up 5.1 system. Most systems (5.1)I have listened to don't have them hooked up this way because of room/show room constraints. Yah I know the processors take this into account when you set your speaker distances, but it is just not the same. I guess what I'm trying to say is the room treatments and dimensions are so often overlooked in this hobby, instead people are spending money on cables and wires, which help don't get me wrong, but do very little in comparison to having spent your time,money and energy in building the right room. Anyway, I too, am planning on the ML cls's bi-amped for the front putting the Aerius's back in the rear.
Thank-you Pete, and everyone for their continued input.
Urban |
