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MSB select II vs all dacs ?

Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the  Rockna Wavedream. Anyone make that comparison?
smodtactical

Showing 10 responses by mikelavigne

mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
David,

oh yes, loved those Found Music 2a3 amps. too bad i did not have the right speakers for them. still on my short list of favorite amps. congrats on owning those. a local friend, member jazdoc, has a 40+ watt set of Found Music mono block amps i do get to hear on a regular basis, and they always sound superb.

i’ll see Scott Sheaffer (Found Music builder/designer) next week. he is almost done with a new DIN cable for my new Durand Tosca tone arm. can’t wait to hear it in the system......and see Scott.
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 

I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. had if for 2 years now.

as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest I’ve done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it.

comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds) so it has the ability to quickly modify it’s inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB.

but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer.

what I’m saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with it’s modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments.

lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. those surpass any other digital choice. the Select II pushes the analog to be it’s best. it’s that good.

mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 

hello David,

as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450.

other dacs I have enjoyed......in no particular order;

I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what I’ve heard from these. so these are ’less preferred’. I could easily live with any of these.

CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----it’s more spendy---$150k

Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k

there are others I know about but I’ve not heard them recently. I'm doing this off the top of my head. more might come to mind and I will add them.

mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
@astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17’ i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for it’s greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. it just complimented my system better than those other two.

at that point i owned the GG1.5, and expected to buy the Nagra HD. but the Formula (one of the first to be imported into the North America), surprised me. i owned that Formula until that June, when i finally gave in to my ears and acquired the Select II.

i could easily live with that Formula dac and still consider it a ’giant-killer’ if a $14k list price dac can be considered a bargain. it did everything right to my ears and i found nothing that bothered me. coming from the GG1.5, and having the Nagra HD there too, the Formula stayed on the natural side of the neutrality line, but never sounded colored......or veiled.

i never did hear the Formula xHD version in my system. my understanding is that the xHD version is a bit less transparent, and more toward ’lush’. for my system, that might not be how i would like it. but i’m just speculating,
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
@smodtactical--
i was at Axpona in April, and RMAF in October, but don't recall hearing the Rockna Wavedream dac specifically; sorry. but i sometimes go in rooms and i don't immediately connect, and move on. i take pictures of most rooms i enter, and sometimes that jogs my memory. i will review those pics again when i have time.

if i've heard it, it did not grab my attention, and that is not necessarily any commentary on the Rockna. i will likely go to RMAF again in September and if it's there i will listen to it. 
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 

What DACs that were much cheaper than the Select 2 have even grabbed your attention? Say something under $20k?

i’m not sure i’m the right guy to answer that question, as it’s been a couple of years since i was really paying attention in that dac market segment. i certainly liked the Lampi GG, the GG1.5 and the Pacific (just a bit over $20k) plus certainly the Aqua Formula too.

there are a number of competent dacs in that $10k to $25k range and i can’t say any stand out......but i’ve not deep dived into them since i went with the MSB Select II.

right now other than the 7-box CH Precision and the NADAC i mention above the other dacs i’ve liked alot are the MSB Reference ($40k+) and the Trinity Dac ($50k+) which i owned in 2016. i’ve heard and liked the Aries Cerat Kassandra II at RMAF, which i think is around $40k, and there are 2 steps up above that version for up to $84k i’ve not heard.

i hope that helps. i’m sort of caught up in optimizing my Select II with my new Extreme server and listening to lots of music.
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
@mikelavigne--What does the rest of your system look like if I may ?

like this;

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/615

my pictures and gear list are about a year old. it's mostly the same......but soon i will be updating it regarding recent additions to the digital and vinyl.
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
@worldwidewholesales 

here is what Bob (Rhapsody) said to me regarding the MSB, CEC and Rockna.

>>>i did not go into any drastic back and forth comparison. But once i got the CEC i just never went back to the MSB because i was just totally satisfied.<<<<

then he also added;

>>>the weird thing is a couple months later i got the Rockna and the same thing happend.<<<<

then;

>>>my digital really sounds good to me and it almost doesn't matter what dac i use.<<<<

what he doesn't say is that the MSB represented a chunk of cash sitting there and he is a dealer to sell stuff.

just putting Bob's comments in a bit of a context as it's hardly proof of any sort of ranking.....as you would then build your case with. i love Bob's casual attitude toward all this great gear, but is he who we use to determine which dac we prefer?

i guess it depends on what case you are trying to make.

have a nice day.
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
@worldwidewholesale 

when you, a distributor of brands (CEC and Rockna), are posting about them relative to other competing products and starting your post as follows;

Hi,
One of our stores in NY, Rhapsody Music, did do a direct comparison and here was his conclusion.

what are we, as end users, to conclude? that your intention is NOT to make a case? :-)

i do agree with your later post that we are speaking about one person's opinion. and this person is one of your dealers. 
mikelavigne
2,206 posts
 
i wanted to add my perspective on the Taiko Audio Extreme server, to what Bob from Rhapsody posted above. the Extreme server is a game changer.

and also agree with Bob that the MSB Select II is also the best digital i have heard.

the combination of the Extreme and the MSB Select II in my system makes for remarkable digital performance. and i would add that the Extreme server is better than other servers by a larger, more obvious margin, than the Select II is better than other dacs.....if that makes sense. the Extreme is like a punch in the nose obvious.

the musical advantage of the Select II is more subtle.....and is more apparent over time as everything is just more real, flowing and nuanced.

of course, i’ve not heard everything out there....and especially not heard everything in the context of my system. YMMV.
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