2. amps-preamps
  3. 194460-201371

Moving to Tube Separates or Tube Integrated + Phono

BACKGROUND:
Hi, I have a modest SS system. Vintage Pioneer SX850 Receiver, Fluance RT82, TEAC A2300 SD, Vienna Acoustics Bach Speakers and a B&W Powered Subwoofer.

I am cobbling together a second system for a garage attic that is turning into a listening room, and I would like this system to be tube driven. I have been gifted a pair of Klipsch Cornwall I's, and have a Denon DP51 TT, and may move the sub out there as well. 

I have been shopping the used market for the past 6 months and have gotten close to buying a few times, but I realize I really don't know what I'm doing! I lean towards an Integrated Tube or Hybrid Amp, ideally with a phono stage. Products that catch my eye and within my budget include used integrated's from Rouge Audio, Prima Luna, Vincent, Cayin, Audio Research and perhaps a vintage tube integrated like a Fisher. 

QUESTION:
If the integrated amp does not have a phono stage and I need to buy a separate phono pre, how much of the tube goodness from the integrated comes through when playing vinyl? Or is the sound of the vinyl strictly determined by the phono pre? Or both? And should I buy a tube phono pre? The extended version of this question would be, when buying separates, how much of the tone is shaped by amp vs. preamp vs. phono preamp? 
And yes I did search through the archives, but I'm still confused!

Thanks much!

seamusmacd
freediver
1,377 posts
 

Your going to get a ton of replies all over the map so I’ll keep this simple & based purely on my own experience..
 Stick to an ALL tube rig,IMO you lose around 20% of the tube magic going hybrid..
 I prefer integrated amps,they are fully optimized to act as a single unit,eliminating the subconscious doubts of the synergy between choosen components & IMO the elimination of an extra I/C & power cable are big positives..
 Note most integrated tube amps are MM Phono only so if you need MC pay close attention to that function of whatever you choose..
 I would also recommend that you pay attention to how many tubes are used in the design,with the minimal approach of Single Ended(2 power tubes)Class A being,IMO,the Pinnacle of all tube sweetness!
 If you go Push Pull,don’t discount a smaller EL84 design like Luxman SQ-N150,which offers MM & MC Phono input,superb headphone circuit & plenty of power for the Cornwalls..With an EL-84 amp your wallet will also thank you when it comes time for a retube,which these days can get VERY expensive,VERY fast!!!
 Good luck...
PS:I’m a big fan of Cayin & there is an awesome deal on a CS-55A(which also has a decent built in USB-DAC) listed on that other site USAudiomart(NOT mine)..
 

seamusmacd OP
3 posts
 

Thanks, freediver! I definitely have a SET 300B on my mind for the Cornwalls, but again, a little confused on whether that would just be the preamp or the phono pre etc. Not too many integrated tube amps with phono stage and single ended 300B that I've seen.

freediver
1,377 posts
 

 One thing I forgot to mention..Pay VERY close attention to HOW THE POWER TUBES ARE BIASED after replacement..Some amps require you to flip it upside down,open the bottom,exposing everything inside,locating the biasing pots & test points,POWERING UP THE AMP(VERY DANGEROUS) & trying to bias the amp while maintaining the test leads to their test points..This is a MAJOR PITA & IMO,a HIGHLY dangerous way to do things..

larryi
4,326 posts
 

Wow!  That is very good general advice from Freediver.  I am also a big fan of EL 84 amps of modest power output.  That tube can be utilized in pretty modest amps to great result.  For the same reason I like 6L6 amps and KT 66 amps.  Vintage amps can be extremely good and cheap, but, the problem is it takes experience and know how to get the best out of them; it is not that easy to be a rookie tubie.  If you have access to a shop that can give you help, that would be the way to go. 
 

Tube gears varies much more than do solid state amps.  Some tube amps are leaner sounding than most solid state amps—whether that is good or bad depends on your set up and taste.  You should try to hear as many examples as you can to get a better idea about what to get.  The other approach is the way most of use to slowly get where we want to be—trial and error with fun, but also painful, substitutions over many years.

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