There are always ‘holes’, that’s why we keep buying stuff 😁
But, believe me, as I’ve been where you are now, your biggest hole is trying to get good 2 channel music from an AVR. Get that out of the chain, and your other holes won’t seem so large.
Believe me, as I didn’t want to believe that my AVR couldn’t be an acceptable 2 channel preamp either, surrounded by all my other upgrades....separate amp, separate phono stage, separate DAC, etc. Then kicked myself for not getting the AVR out of the music chain sooner after I hooked up the little Parasound pre. Oh well, at least I had bought all those other goodies along the journey, some replaced, and still others to be replaced....including the Zpre eventually :-) |
Audio Advisor has the Parasound NewClassic 200 integrated for $899 right now.
Although the Outlaw looks interesting, I would trust overall sound quality to Parasound. But that’s just me. The NewClassic would basically do everything the Outlaw does without WiFi. But, if you get that inexpensive Dayton streamer, that would take care of that.
I assume you will hook up your TV via optical? |
I would check out the Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated Amplifier. Has HT bypass, so would be seamless with your AVR. I think it has sub bypass as well. About 110 WPC IIRC. New, $1,200. |
Similar to what I did. My TV/HT and 2 channel are in the same space, the living room. My AVR has pre outs, so first bought a separate amp for the mains thinking that would make an improvement, it did, but not good enough, so finally bought a separate 2 channel preamp with HT pass through, and now life is much better. All my 2 channel is separate from my HT setup, and I can change with a press of a couple buttons on my remote.
The music sounds great, better than ever, and the HT? Just fine and dandy for non critical music listening.
We all cannot have dedicated music rooms. Fine with me, my setup works. |
Which is why I recommended the Parasound New200 integrated. But, was unaware you don’t have pre outs. Otherwise, the mix of that and your AVR might have worked, to a point.
just be careful of expecting too much from a separate amp while using an AVR as your pre. I didn’t find that out until I stopped using my AVR as my pre. Only then did I understand what I was missing in music listening. Night and day difference with a dedicated 2 channel preamp. That said, yes, I do have a separate streamer, DAC, etc. all connected to my 2 channel pre. I run 5 channel via my TV/AVR, so, that’s really all it does....all the HDMI via the TV/Roku, my center channel, and rear speakers are controlled with the AVR. Even my subs are connected via the high level connections and my main amps speaker connections. I don’t use LFE, as the subs are tuned for music independently. Yes, I lose some impact via 5.*1* channel LFE for TV and movies, but that isn’t as important as my subs for music.
I also worried about losing room correction, but don’t miss it at all. I would say room correction was more trying to correct the short comings of using the AVR as my 2 channel preamp, more than anything else. That concern went away after getting a dedicated pre. 2 channel music listening was transformed for the better, and room correction was no longer important, at all. Also some fairly inexpensive room treatments helped in a large way as well.
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@bkeske I am attracted to the integrated route. I am just trying to be realistic about having a shared living room/listening area and placement/treatment has its limitations. If it was a separate space I’d certainly go that route. I’m looking more into the Parasound. Looks like it has on board DAC but you use a separate one? Which streamer do you use? I don’t know how everything fits together. Really, I have 1 TV with 1 or 2 video sources, a turntable, 2 speakers, and a sub. If all of it can connect, I’m certainly willing to simplify from needless AVR stuff. I’m not using an integrated, but did buy a Parasound preamp without a DAC. Thus, I have a separate DAC. Right now a Denafrips Ares II, before that a PS Audio DAC. IMO, I like the idea of a separate DAC as the technology shifts and advances. That said, I would assume the DAC inside the 200 would be pretty darn good, so not a necessity to purchase separate. As far as a steamer, a very simply steamer box from Dayton Audio that connects into my DAC, then to my preamp. I can connect to the steamer via my iPad or iPhone as it is wireless, and use my Tidal app within the iPad or phone. I do not stream a lot, so have not invested into a more comprehensive streaming device. Thinking about it, but just not that important to me. Most all my music is via vinyl, CD, or cassette. My CD player also runs through my DAC instead of using its internal DAC. Thus, my CD/BluRay player is basically a transport. If I want to watch a DVD I have, which is rare, I can still do that with its HDMI connection to my AVR. The nice thing about that Parasound New200 is the ability to manage your sub at the amp. Similar to how you do your with your AVR internally with its software. |
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@coolhandduke
No, I can adjust my subs crossover and gain at the subs themselves, so I adjust them independently for music. I have high speaker connections at the subs as well, and they are both getting their signal from my Belles 2 channel amp speaker terminals (as well as feeding my front speakers). It takes no power from my front speakers as the subs are powered and have their own amps, thus only receiving a signal from my amp.
As I stated earlier, I no longer use the LFE. For me, this works great, for music.
As far as a used unit going for $350 with a Zphono included, make sure what models they are. My Zpre3 is the newest model, but there are older ones. Not saying the earlier models may not work for you, they might. |
The Parasound Zpre3 preamp is what I bought to separate my Belles amp from my AVR for dedicated 2 channel listening. Great little pre for the money. I got mine from Safe and Sound as an open box for $350.
As I already had a separate DAC, phono stage, and streamer, it’s all I needed. And to have the HT bypass makes it work great for TV/home theater/AVR integration. Easy. And very good sound, finally, for all my 2 channel listening.
Highly recommended for the value it brings. |
There are many different thoughts on bass management. I’ve tried many, and have no issue leaving my Vandersteen 2CE Sigs run full range, and my two subs adjusted to supplement and augment them, not replace their bass.
Paul McGowan of PS Audio was the first I had heard believe in keeping their mains at full range while using subs. So, I tried it. It works, but simply works differently than the more ‘typical’ way or stripping out most the lows at your mains and replacing them with the subwooofer. You can use all of the subs. It just take a bit more time fine tuning.
In the end, I prefer that method for music. Granted, in HT, it may not be as powerful, but that isn’t my primary goal, music is.
BTW, the ZPre also has a sub RCA/LFE connection. It just does not have the adjustments of the NewClassic 200, Which does allow you to manage your bass to the mains and subs. |
@coolhandduke
That is a good deal. I would strongly consider that as a package. But it is a bid situation with 4 days left.
That particular Zphono goes for about $200 new, so keep that in mind.
Or, give him an offer and see if he accepts.
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