The missing gold nugget of advice hear is that you won't know anything about how speakers sound until you get them home and listen IN YOUR ROOM. I sense that you're researching brand names and construction practices. There's a LOT of history and "culture" here. Don't overdo the information processing. Getting up to speed to converse in the lingo isn't at all important, as NO_ONE can help you decide what will sound best to YOUR ears in your room. This cannot be overstressed. So start by getting a few pairs of various 2-way monitors that are well-liked, and try them out at home with a neutral integrated like the NAD C370 or Audio Refinement Complete. Suggestions might include the
Soendor S3/1p ($800 used), Revel M20 ($1200)or N805($1600), or cheaper decent two-ways like the flasjier Triangles, Quad 11L, B&W 601, even NAD Super Ones or Paradign 20. They'll all sound different. Get good stands (like the $200 steel Plateau V23 clones of the $500 Target), cover your sidewalls with pillows, etc., and trust your ears. Use a decent source like the new NAD C541i for $400. Keep it simple, relax, and trust your ears. You'll be shocked at how a tiny good 6" 2-way will sound so much better than monstrous dreck! Oh...check the new JMLabs Chorus 70? as well.... |
Chris: I said that some might intially find the JBL's to be "impressive" based on the physical size of the cabinet and the larger than "normal" sized woofer that one commonly finds in most current designs.
Other than that, i'm glad that you have enough interest in the subject to look around and try to educate yourself on the subject prior to spending your money. While we can provide you with different tips and tricks, it will be up to you in terms of what you finally spend your money on. Sean
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No kidding Sean, very loose construction. Impressive? big, yes and semi "shiny". I don't have much interest in impressing anyone so having said that I'll just reiterate that I'm cutting through the surface HT stuff that is out there right now. I'm very interested in a pair of Intermezzo 2.6's as they seem like amazingingly well constructed speakers with a lot of thought put into the contruction and how that plays into the final output. From the specs and reviews I checked out last night Stereophile stated best that for the size mind you (and being completely non-fiber, mostly aluminum) they were clear and highly capable with all but the deepest lows. They seemed to do best hooked into what I believe was a nicely warm, tube reciever and stayed away from sounding metallic throughout the test despite the construction. It just so happens that they ARE pretty too. All that means is that my girlfriend and her cat won't kill me (as slowly) for taking over a room for the sake of placement.
Retailing right around 2k I've found them here for much cheaper so that puts them well within my price. I'm in Seattle so the specialty shops are quite numerous for listening tests. Does NAD make any amps that promote good detail and transparency to match these 2.6's?
"Where do you live? One of us probably lives close enough to help you and quite possibly someone in the group has something in a closet that would get you on the path. There is a ridiculous glut of equipment for sale these days. It's a buyer's market and we've reached a place where things a guy like you might need to launch his disease are available very cheaply."
-VERY good point Macrojack and I have checked out the browse section of AudioGon and found unbelievable prices. Terminology is seeming to come together as something more than latin finally so soon I should be able to do the math on what the "right setup" for me is by finding tech that reproduces that one unique variable, what each listener indeed listens too.
Thanks again, Chris
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Bravo -- A convert.
You needn't go for separates to start out. There are integrated amps from NAD and some of the British companies and speakers from NHT that won't cost you any more than you were planning to spend on the Best Buy option.
Where do you live? One of us probably lives close enough to help you and quite possibly someone in the group has something in a closet that would get you on the path. There is a ridiculous glut of equipment for sale these days. It's a buyer's market and we've reached a place where things a guy like you might need to launch his disease are available very cheaply.
What sources do you wish to include? |
I stopped by BB today and saw the speakers that Chris is looking at. I can see why a "youngster" might be impressed by them i.e. they are good sized floorstanders and appear to be a bargain at 1/3 of retail price. Having said that, i was quickly reminded of why they wholesale at that price once i knocked on the cabinet i.e. they had the sound of a completely unbraced, undamped resonant box. After listening to the undamped bass and sizzling treble, they are surely built to sound "exciting" in the showroom but would probably be fatiguing in the long run. I can say without hesitation that Chris would be better off with a stacked pair of Large Advent's for about the same money. Not only would that installation "look impressive" to his buddies, it would sound 10X better. Not as exciting mind you, but MUCH more natural and realistic for about the same amount of money.
As far as any HT receiver goes Chris, don't believe the power specs. Most do not meet spec when put to the test. HT receivers are about in the same place that car stereo amps were 15 years ago i.e. marketing makes up numbers that the products could only meet under very specific and limited conditions.
Think of this as your "challenge" and you are Luke Skywalker. We know that the "dark side" ( mass produced commercialized junk ) may have a powerful draw that seems to be very attractive, but once you know and experience "the good side" of hi-fi / audio reproduction, you'll have no problem staying "true to the cause" : ) Sean
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PS... Chris aka "Luke": I am NOT your Father : )
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Ouch. Okay let's turn this around a bit? No brick walls here people, first thing first. I'm trying to learn terminoligy such as is not provided to the joe anybody. I'm not set on a reciever in the least. I'm trying to filter the "Home Theatre" crap from my head every day and I'm no slow learner. That means seeking the tech out there in the great sea of misinformation that accuratly reproduces the sounds I already love and those I hadn't the tools to appreciate before now. I, for instance will now seek out info on monitors, not "GIGANTOR-EXPLOSIVE(speaker)-STUFF ala' JBL! So thank you so far for this slightly more blunt advice. Spend more money? Once I find the right mix of amp/preamp/monitor I will have found my price point and will then be much more prepared for the process of saving, a process everyone seeking a passion is very familiar with.
I have heard Definitive before and liked what I heard. Totem seems absolutely well designed and well recieved. PBS I am familiar with by name and will try to find in the flesh so that I might get a little more comparison standard for the others. I think I know much more for unlearning the mainstream in corresponding with AGon members. It really helps me to get past reviews and "shiny" pleasantries and just get into the aural attraction of what a good system is.
Sean's comments were a bit painful to the old pride initially. Also what I needed, so , gratitude in that direction, Sean. Good points all of you. I'm going to do some real listening at the hi-fi shops in town tommorow so I'll keep it all in mind. - Chris L. |
Ouch. Okay let's turn this around a bit? No brick walls here people, first thing first. I'm trying to learn terminoligy such as is not provided to the joe anybody. I'm not set on a reciever in the least. I'm trying to filter the "Home Theatre" crap from my head every day and I'm no slow learner. That means seeking the tech out there in the great sea of misinformation that accuratly reproduces the sounds I already love and those I hadn't the tools to appreciate before now. I, for instance will now seek out info on monitors, not "GIGANTOR-EXPLOSIVE(speaker)-STUFF ala' JBL! So thank you so far for this slightly more blunt advice. Spend more money? Once I find the right mix of amp/preamp/monitor I will have found my price point and will then be much more prepared for the process of saving, a process everyone seeking a passion is very familiar with.
I have heard Definitive before and liked what I heard. Totem seems absolutely well designed and well recieved. PBS I am familiar with by name and will try to find in the flesh so that I might get a little more comparison standard for the others. I think I know much more for unlearning the mainstream in corresponding with AGon members. It really helps me to get past reviews and "shiny" pleasantries and just get into the aural attraction of what a good system is.
Sean's comments were a bit painful to the old pride initially. Also what I needed, so , gratitude in that direction, Sean. Good points all of you. I'm going to do some real listening at the hi-fi shops in town tommorow so I'll keep it all in mind. Discount be damned, I'm going to find some nice audio. - Chris L. |
It seems like everybody is saying what I know to be true. JBL is mass media crap. In fact, if it wasn't, Best Buy wouldn't carry it.
The attraction for you appears to be the discount and the message I'm hearing from your wise and patient respondents is uniformly this: Look for value, not discount.
As Nelson Pass once said, "The used market speaks eloquently......". You can see by the prices what something is really worth.
If you want to be taken seriously around here, you have to take serious advice seriously.
Buy a good entry level integrated and a nice pair of used monitors and by listening to them at home and the other stuff at work, you will become discerning. And you'll probably need to look for a new job.
Good Luck. You're on the right track if you listen to these guys. No one at BB from the CEO on down can run with this group. |
just keep in mind that retail price or manufactur suggested retail price is just exactly that. what ultimately counts will be what you get with the price that you paid. curtis. |
Scrap the JBL and find a nice pair of monitors as you can pick up a pair here on Agon and consider spending a bit more, you'll be happy you did!
Paradigm, Totem, Definitive, PSB, all make some nice entry level speakers which will be much nicer than the JBL route! Happy Listening |
I think that you'll find that most people here would say that quality counts more than quantity. Having said that, go with what you think will work for you. Nobody here knows exactly what you like or want out of a system. If you think that you can be happy with the products that you mention, then go for it.
Most every respondent to your last thread advised against purchasing a receiver yet you seem dead set on the product. As such, most folks aren't interested in speaking to a brick wall.
I know that the products mentioned seem like a bargain to you, but the overall quality and sound produced will not compare to what you could find on the used market. If having products that are "shiny" with a warranty is important to you, then go for it. If you value high quality sound, be patient and shop around. Just keep in mind that there is a reason that the "generic" high dollar items cost as much wholesale as the smaller items i.e. there is little difference in quality or quantity of parts used between the two. What looks more impressive on paper via specs or physical size is really nothing but overpriced products with a phenomenal profit margin. Sean
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Hard to meet audio nirvana even at that price...but hey...one has to start somewhere...I would personally shop around...there is a pair of Ruark monitors on site for less than $300 which would be a great deal...dont panic...and stick to 2-way monitors if you value accuracy and refinement over sheer visceral JBL power,,,cheers... |
