With your grounds only connected at the breaker panel AND through ICs, that is a recipe for ground loops. I ran 6 awg to a mini panel with the outlets right next to it at my system. Not sure why more don't do it.
More questions about dedicated lines
We are moving to a new house built in 2007 and I am fortunate enough to be able to move a wall to create a room with golden ratios. I will need to run some new electric and it gives me the opportunity to run dedicated lines. I have spent countless hours rummaging through the 7k discussions on this topic and have a decent idea of what is needed. My plans are to have four runs of Romex 10/2, one each for each monoblock VAC signature 200's, my digital, and my Audiokinesis swarm which has not be set up yet. I estimate the runs to be conservatively 45 feet including up and down distances. All runs will be of equal length ending in SR outlets. They will be separate from each other and all other lines and no metal staples will be used. When I told him I my goal was to have the best sound he offered a suggestion that I hadn't come across in my electrical education here on the gon. He suggested placing what sounded like a commercial power regenerator with a large battery bank as the first step out of the breaker box and running lines from this. The other options were to run from a preexisting sub panel that has the pool pump and a few lights on it, but nothing else. Third is straight out the breaker box. He wanted to put the runs closest to the utility line in, stating that there will be less noise upstream than downstream, but this puts these lines next to a big double breaker (cant' remember what it is but is sure to be noisey). He understands that I want all lines on the same phase, or line,leg. My questions are: Of the three options, which would be best? Is there anything else needed to minimize the risk of ground loop hum if I use separate hot, return, and gound for each line and not share ground neutrals and keep all lines separated from themselves and other lines. If going through a subpanel with little on it, how do I manage to keep all runs on the same phase without unbalancing the breaker? A third tangential question-Is it best to use metal or plastic housing boxes for the receptacle? The question of durability of the plastic fatiguing and breaking following repeated plugging and unplugging has been mentioned but I didn't see an answer. Finally, a huge thank you to jea and almarg for their voluminous responses in all the prior electrical discussions-I got an education. Sadly, I still don't speak electricalese.
Showing 12 responses by audiozenology
orthomead, I am running a single 6 awg connection (line/neutral/ground) to a mini - 6 location panel right behind my system. I only have 3 breakers installed. That runs to 3 double outlets on the other side of the stud. The wire lengths are quite short, about 16". I used 20A outlets as they would accept 10awg. I can always run a separate ground to this mini panel, but don't see a need. |
A single set of wires to the mini-panel. One live, one neutral, one ground. The balancing is done at the main panel, but realistically, balancing is a very rough exercise at best these days. No matter how big your breaker to your audio system, unless you are running lots of high power Class-A, the average current draw is fraction of the breaker rating even when the volume is high. |
vair68robert156 posts12-18-2019 10:50pmOne more of my opinions , This is definitely something you will never regret later! |
Wow ..... that is some serious sour grapes. I will repeat what Almarg posted, and point out the obvious inverse/square law, i.e. RF sources nearby will have far more impact than distant ones: Regarding the possibility of using the large commercial regenerator that was suggested by the electrician, if I understand correctly this sounds as if it may be something like a very powerful UPS (uninterruptable power supply). If so, what I would ask about is the possibility that the circuitry in it might generate significant RFI (radio frequency interference). I can tell you that if I bring a portable battery powered radio within a foot or so of the relatively small UPSs I use for my computer systems (which are the type that generates true sine waves, not stepped approximations of sine waves as is done by many inexpensive UPS devices that are presumably more noisy) the high frequency noise radiated by their circuitry is picked up very strongly in the AM band. |
The problem with power supply decoupling through multiple lines is that unless you couple the grounds at your system, you are now injecting differential ground noise, which arguably is worse. The concern with amplifiers is not average draw, but peak draw, which for an AB amplifier could easily be several times the fuse/breaker rating even though the average draw is far below the fuse rating. Over a 45 foot run, that could cause a large voltage drop at the top and bottom of the AC waveform when the amplifier capacitors are charging. For that reason, a 10awg run may not be sufficient (though the resistance may reduce EMI). I run a single 6awg, mini panel, outlets close by. That makes individual ground runs short between equipment, and a low resistance run back to the panel. I think it is a good compromise. |
jea48, What are you doing posting articles by actual engineers who understand the topic. Don't you know that "book smart" engineers couldn't possibly understand "audio"? All they know is numbers ;-) Orthomead, if you skim over the articles that jea48 posted, they discuss why running multiple lines is not a good idea (highest potential for differences in the ground potential between the outlets. jea48's wire choice worked to negate induced ground potentials. I ran a single heavy gauge to eliminate ground potential differences between equipment (and used My mini panel is in the wall behind my equipment rack. There is a small acoustic panel over top of it. |
jea48 Heck of a lot of good advice in that post! If you are in a major city, I don't think you will have too much trouble finding steel armoured cable. Most of the major electrical distributors will stock it, though maybe not in their branch outlets, so you may have to order today, deliver tomorrow. I also used Romex as I have a dedicated run with nothing near it. My brain is starting to go into Christmas shutdown mode, so I am not sure I am 100% accurate when stating that using 120/240 will create unbalanced current which could cause ground injection. Assume I am wrong, but please check my work. One consideration, whether you wire for 120/240, if you use 6/3 (or 4/3), you can buy round (and twisted) instead of flat. +1 on the double wall. Also consider resilient channel if you want some sound deadening. I am not sure your reasoning behind using solid core (and not stranded), but I agree with the choice as well. The transformer in your equipment only has limited bandwidth, and anything beyond a few KHz to support required transient current delivery due to only conducting for part of the AC cycle (linear power supply), is just providing a convenient path in and out for noise. |