MoFi controversy

"MFSL engineers begin with the original master tapes and meticulously cut a set of lacquers"

A quote from the sheet that MoFi explain how they're doing the one step process.

To me it is not omitting anything when it is a clear lie. And saying omitting is to be nice in my opinion.

So you often have to go back to the label and request such a file. The reason is simple: digital release files are compressed since there is an expectation they will be played in a car.

For this reason the LP frequently has greater dynamic range than the CD (or other digital format). About the only way you're going to get that is if you get an LP that was mastered without the compression.

For those that argue that digital has greater dynamic range, why would anyone do that, that sort of thing; in theory yes in practice no.

 

That is totally false. CD has greater dynamic range in theory and in practice. 

Why many THINK that it is the opposite is just of the reason you told.

When LP is the analog equivalent with the digital MP3 but even worse in some cases. With that I mean that LP is in data terms a lossy format and worse is it adds random click and pops that were not in the source so it is worse than MP3 that do not add those artifacts. 

Do some of the mentioned steps add any sound quality:

• Lacquer cutting does it add Sound quality?
• Plating and additional plating (father, mother..) does it add Sound quality?
• Pressing when first LP is different than the last when the stampers is worn out. does it add Sound quality?
• Vinyl compound different is more or less noisy does it add Sound quality?
• Profile of the stampers flat profile does it add Sound quality?
• More or less excentrisy does it add Sound quality?
• Better TT with more or less wow and flutter does it add Sound quality?
• Better tone arm does it add Sound quality?
• Better cartridge does it add Sound quality?
• Using better canteliver does it add Sound quality?
• Better stylus shape does it add Sound quality?
• Uni-din, Löfgren A/B, Bergwall and so on does it add Sound quality?
• Better adjusted SRA, anti scate, VTA, zenith and so on  does it add Sound quality?

No NOTHING of the above does add Sound quality!

But what vinyl production and playback does is it just try to do each point with as little harm as possible in other words all steps tries to lose as little sound quality as they possible can so we see all is lossy and add clicks and pops.

 

With all that said when we hold a LP in our hands it is a physical copy protection when it is not possible to go back by digitalization, to the digital source that the LP were produced from when it is NOT lossless.

 

So you often have to go back to the label and request such a file.

When label know that above and LP need all they can get when it is lossy. Then often the digital files that are used for lacquer cutting is allowed from the labels that supply a less or not at all compressed digital file.

 

So many comparisons between CD and LP is not appels to appels when they are two different files one more compressed than the other (but yes it is still the same mastering engineer and so on).

And on the other hand the digital media (CD and the others) there is no problem to do a bit perfect copy so the label don't want us to have to good sound quality wise copy from them (otherwise also it would be harder to sell a reissue down the road).

 

So in theory and in PRACTICE CD are better than LP in every possible way. And many comparisons that shows otherwise is flawed when the one that compare thinks that they compared the same version when it were the same mastering engineer.. And not knowing that LP pressing plants are getting a more dynamic copy of that digital file than the CD pressing plants got.

And this is why CD got bad reputation when if we put crap on it then it will still be crap coming out from it. And it doesn't matter if CD can in practice contain more dynamic range if the CONTENT is not having any dynamic range..

 

(As a side note regarding LP. Is it is satisfying to get better sound quality when going from spherical stylus to line contact. But most of us thinks naturally that wow we have increased the sound quality, now we have not we are only having and doing LESS losses than we had before. The degraded sound quality were always in the grooves. And we can't enhance that in any way just to preserve it as good as possible.)

 

 

@lewm why couldn't I?

It is not my fault that people compare compressed source material against uncompressed and they think that they compared appels to apple?

I could say the same 

You can't compare lossy LP production to lossless CD?

 

Ok let's take another angle..

If LP production process steps were lossless why do MoFi need to do several test pressings from their 4xDSD?

They should be able to just EQ and make the DSD as they wanted to sound and send it directly to production, done deal.

No the problem is LP production process steps subtracting sound quality and attenuate some frequency range more than others.

That is ONE reason that they do test pressings. So they can listen and analyze what has been attenuated and then they can boost the DSD file accordingly so the NEXT test pressing will supposedly sound as they would like it to sound from the new adjusted 4xDSD file..

In other words they adjust the 4xDSD file as a tool so they can work around and compensate for the degradation that the LP production process steps introduce.

 

But I can't understand why it is so hard to understand that?

I am a huge vinyl lover but I do not pretend that it is something else that it isn't. 🙏💕🎶🎼🎵

To minimize confusion the compression that I am addressing and is a bigger issue than if MoFi is using digital or not.

 

The album is done since decades and in some cases the artist is also at this point dead and gone.

Someone (in my book the record labels) is taking those ready and finished songs especially when digital we went to CD (and computers) "The issue garnered renewed attention starting in the 1990s with the introduction of digital signal processing capable of producing further loudness increases."

It is easy to just run over a set of songs in a computer and adding "loudness" at a disired and set level:

Super Trouper diffrent compression levels

 

So in the above example we see the exactly the same song with different compression levels on different releases.

That is EXACTLY the problem!

We are mislead to think "that is the same mix and THEREFORE the same version that I am comparing between two different formats." (I am guilty of the same mistake in the past.)

Yes, it is true that it is the "closest" we can get but it doesn’t mean it is the same "version" when the song probably is more compressed on one of the formats and we do not know. Only the record labels that has supplied the files to the pressing plants (LP/CD for example).

 

Now if we understand that.

Then we can proceed with in this example MoFi. When they digitize the master band they are in the computer.

If they offer us THAT copy to us then that would be the best and the closest we would get to the original master tapes EVER.

That is the ultimate version for consumers.

BUT..

Consumers think that they just take that 4xDSD and convert it to DSD (SACD) or CD (PCM). If they would so then we would be happy.

That is NOT happening and that is not what we get when we buy the MoFi SACD. (Besides that they has cleaned up artifacts and other issues from the tape (Ex. tape hiss))

They of course add dynamic range compression (loudness) as we see above to their choosing degree.

That is a bigger issue that record labels DO NOT TELL US LEVEL OF DYNAMIC RANGE COMPRESSION. That they treated/used on the files that they supply/giving the files to the pressing plants (LP/CD).

 

So it is a far smaller issue if MoFi use digital or not.

This issue has brought down superior formats by the record labels and they indirectly steered and manipulated us towards inferior formats in my humble opinion.

And NOBODY talks about it like nobody talked about about that MoFi used digital in 2015/16 when they started for example one steps.

 

Maybe it is to complex topic and it is not helping that people talk about normal compression and compressors in the recording studio while creating the mix. That just clouding the water.

When it is after that the song is completely done and sent of to a data storage under labels control.

If that is deliberately or any agenda behind to do that I don’t know. But as we all can see in the link above, it is proof in the pudding that when we can clearly hear AND measure AND see that this is the case. Someone (read labels) add variation degree of compression on different releases and most likely labels don’t want us to focusing on that. That would result in a bigger debacle for all music lovers and not just for them that has bought MoFi pressings.

 

@onhwy61 

I Retested and clicked on the image and got the image.

Should look something like this:

 

 

 

 

@clearthink @jayctoy

What proof I found that In my book I consider as a lie.

Is that they supply a sheet withe each one-step box, that explains the one-step process and how they do it:

"MFSL engineers begin with the original master tapes and meticulously cut a set of lacquers."

here is the source:

MFSL lies

@sokogear 

"I only care about the SQ."

I see you are also deep into the rabbit hole of vinyl.😉

I used to think the same. During many years of optimizing and evolving my system to just getting it better and better. Learning how production process of a LP and their steps. Going deep into LP rabbit hole. With the mental drive force that I am only after SQ..

 

But after all upgrades, refinements and increasing knowledge. I now know that vinyl is not a way to obtain the BEST SQ after all my learning and experience but during the time going down to the hole and staying there the LP has rubbed off and i noticed that it is far from best SQ but other aspects than SQ that I value.

So more correct is to say. I care only about the best LP SQ. 

But it is a long journey with a lot technical knowledge (maybe it has helped me to been working in the process industry and later software developer and software tester so LP process is nothing magical or digital for that matter with critical thinking as tester) to come to that conclusion.