there are many modes I did to my duos from 2000.
Omega upgrade a few years back.
soldering all internal connections with silver solder
replacing the mundorf tweeter cap with teflon v-caps.
replacing the internal wire with audio note silver wire.
replacing the binding posts with nextgen copper ones.
filling the hollow stands with sands.
dampening the metal zylinders with some damping material
removing the rear cover of the midrange horn.
time align the tweeter with midrange
putting the speaker on harmonix rf 999 cones
putting the tweeter xo outside in a separate box
the single biggest tweak was the cap change followed closely by the time alignment of the tweeter.
recently an audio buddy came over who also owns omega dus. put the tweeter in it's original position and then back around 20 cm in it's time alignment position. he was shocked how much better the aligned position sounds and did the same thing to his duos. |
Cmo,
yes cap upgrade was done after the omega upgrade |
Chadeffect,
using some sticky black bitumen stuff for the dampening of the cylinders. Did that tweak some 10 years ago. don't remember the brand. it was stuff used in cars in dampen resonances. keep the original foam in place inside the cylinders. however, after removing the rear covers of the horns I removed the rear cover foam so I can see the driver when standing behind the speaker. this way the back wave doesn't bounce back and forth. sounds more open if you will.
Johnk,
using lyngdorf corner subs especially designed to be put into corners behind main speakers. not really bass horns but way better than the 225 subs imo. also mid and high frequencies improve when the vibrations from the 225 subs are removed. |
sdrsdrsdr, the avantgarde construction is a bit flimsy for speakers so expensive. the new g2 series looks more solid. no doubt any damping helps the sound. before you change the internal wire just make the effort to solder all internal connections, also on the driver side. makes a nice improvement in clarity and costs basically nothing. if you can try the harmonix rf 999 cones. once one of my audio buddies came to me place and asked me to remove the cones. he was shocked at the differences and said this is crazy and I'm not using the avantgarde subs at all. If you can try to find a way to put the tweeter 15-20 cm back for time alignment. this makes a huge difference!!
happy tweaking |
sdrsdrs, look forward to hear from you about the soldering tweak. this clip on connectors are bad for sound, not only in speakers but electronics as well!
had some wooden blocks built for the tweeters which I have put on the 225 subs which allow me to move the tweeters back in small increments. half cm matters if you get to the optimum point. the closer you sit to the speaker the further you have to move the tweeter back (if you are sitting on tweeter axis). have a look at the last uno nano review in stereophile, the step response. at 1,5 meter distance the tweeter signals arrived 0,75 ms too early which is around 26 cm!!!
I think with the trios you have to build your own stands for tweeter and mid horns so that you can individually move them back for proper alignment. not an easy task but no doubt sonically very rewarding! |
Hornguys, I agree with your comment re butt ugly. my solution with the wooden blocks certainly is but I don't care. I don't have a problem with reflections from the midrange horn. have measured the response before and after time alignment and there is no difference.
I also find it amazing how much of a difference it makes to time align the horns with the subs. I'm using digital delay for that which I can adjust on the fly with a few a mouse clicks. even at a xo of 200 hz a few cm can easily be heard.
everybody who is interested in this subject should look at john atkinson's step response measurement of the uno nanos and read his comments!!
Chadeffect, aligning tweeter with mid horn would certainly be a major improvement. best would be to align all 4 drivers in your trios but this is a daunting task indeed |
chadeffect, I'd strongly adv against inserting another box into the chain. beside that box you DO need separate amps and dacs . the improvement of aligning the tweeter with the mid is rather large. my friend who came over recently and who also owns omega duos listened first to my duos with tweeter aligned. hit pause on my transport, moved tweeter back in its original position and hit play. after a few seconds he said "oh shit"!
The idea of sdrsdrsdr to built a separate stand for the tweeter is a good one. I can imagine it would be easy to built something from wood.
Guys, don't worry about reflections from the other horns. whatever sound from the tweeter gets reflected will be reflected back to the front wall and causes no harm to the sound!
sdrsdrsdr, I would start moving the tweeter app. 15 cm back and then move them further back in small increments until you hit the right spot.
hornguys, agree speaker sound good stock but they can sound a LOT better with some tweaks! besides time alignment changing the tweeter cap also makes a dramatic improvements and moves the speaker to the next level. I'm using the teflon v-caps. Dueland cast would be another option. the stock mundorfs are decent caps but do not allow tweeter to perform at the level it is capable of! |
sdrsdrsdr, chris of vh audio offered to put my 2 caps for 4 days on a cable cooker. guess this helped a lot. they still needed several hundred hours to reach their max performance. you can put some stuff in the tweeter horns like socks, disconnect the other drivers and play music 24/7 without bothering anyone in the house.
maril555, this the the main disadvantage of the G2 series imo. I like the looks of then G2 series. they are also more solidly build but putting the tweeter into bass cabinet is not a good idea. maybe its possible to remove the tweeter from the cabinet and put it on top for time alignment??? |
Maril555, you could be right, it might be a major surgery. Not familiar with the construction of the new G2 series.
Believe their main reason for putting the tweeter inside the sub cabinet is 1) aesthetics and 2) reducing overall size and make them more acceptable in a domestic environment. there are many other things you can do to improve the sound of your speakers. see my post at the beginning of this thread. happy tweaking! |
chadeffect, you would need 4 dacs and 4 amps to time alignment all drivers. of course the 4dacs should have a delay function build in so that you can adjust each dac individually. this means big bucks, a lot of additional cables, component stands etc..
better spend a few hundred bucks and get some stands build by a carpenter. |
chadeffect, if this clever unit got 8 separate analog or digital out you still need 4 dacs and 4 stereo or 8 mono amps. there is NO way around it.
I have a tact rcs since '99. I'm not a fan of room correction at all. don't use it since several years. when you change the response in the digital domain the sound becomes a bit hard/ digital sounding. using dsp only in the bass to cut peaks. do not touch the response at mid and high frequencies at all. in my millennium I can switch dsp like a digital filter on and off while playing music per mouse clicks. this way you can hear in seconds the nasties produced by dsp!!
My advice to you is to get some separate stands for the mid and highs buildt! |
sdrsdrsdr, digital filters may sound better than the analog ones they are replacing, depending on the quality of the analog parts. I was shocked when I replaced the Mundorf silver/gold a few years back with the v-caps. Could not imagine how much music get lost in those mundorfs. With the mundorfs a digital filter might be the lesser evil.
The point I wanted to make is that digital xo is also not perfect. I once tried to put a 4th order high pass filters on my main channel. the duos fall off below 300 hz so with that filter I did not change the response at all. once I engaged that filter everything sounded a bit hard. I immediately removed it.
There are different ways to time align the avantgardes. one is to use a box with digital filters, several dacs and amps and the other is to built separate stands for the horns. Would like to hear from you about your experiences with the stands and about chadeffect's experiences with the digital xo route using several dacs and amps.
I any case both of your trios will sound a lot better. A good tool for time alignment is is to download audacity software, play 1 hz square waves and measure the step response with a high quality mic |
Triode, my name is not Jim but would like to comment anyway. Don't drill any new mounting holes into the tweeter housing. Believe you are using Duos. If that's the case you can do as my friend did: hang the tweeter with some belts underneath the midrange horns. This also helps isolating the tweeter from the vibration of the other drivers. push the tweeter 20 cm back as a starting point. Move them forward/backward in small increments like 0,5 cm. You will know once you hit the right spot! |
sdrsdrsdr, agree,less digital anything is always better. As an alternative to v-caps Duelund cast are also supposed to be excellent. Someday I will try their cast inductors in my tweeter xo.
Chadeffect, try the magic box if you like but I'm sure it will f..k up your glorious set sound! Not sure it's a good idea to drill the frame. You need something that allows you to slide the tweeter in small increments backwards!
Have not heard the Duelunds so can't comment on them. Guess it is system and personal taste dependent as to which cap is the better choice. |
that's true. it's a mundorf cap with a 3rd wire which is connected to the cpc circuit. still a teflon v-caps without that circuit sounds a LOT better than the biased mundorf cap!
This thread is getting very quit. is everybody busy tweaking their avantgardes? |
