Having owned "complex" line stages, but also very simple Mapletree active/tube and Lightspeed Attenuator, the OPs question seems to be very much on point - why the complexity for great sound? Is it even related?
Adding gain when none is needed explains some complexity, and finding ways to keep noise down also adds complexity. And if someone want to charge me five figures for a line stage, it better be complex and/or built like jewelry. The Mapletree and Lighspeed are neither, but they sure do sound good and both under $1,000 (not great switching facilities though). |
I can see the appeal of freedom, but not particularly interested in being a fool unless absolutely necessary. I am still only slightly foolish when it comes to cables and power cords:) |
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." |
Ralph, are you saying that in most cases, the "damage" caused by an IC is greater than the damage caused by active circuitry in a line stage whose primary purpose is to control interconnects?
Interestingly, I have both George's Lightspeed and your LineStage - they both sound excellent, but they are driving different amps ( the M60s with your MP3). With my other amp, the manufacturer said no active preamp would sound better than a high quality attenuator, which I always found interesting in that he is more than capable of designing a SOTA preamp, he just does not believe in them. This really seems beyond debate or proof, just try it and see what you like - it will not be resolved here:) You just have to be more attentive setting up a passive system. |
08-26-11: Goldeneraguy
...I dont understand why so many here complain about the cost or knock others that purchased one of these so called over priced items.
As for me, I never complain about the price, or a company's profit margins, we are all free to buy or not to buy. What does get a bit of a rise out of me is the belief that you get what you pay for and more expensive means better - it ain't necessarily so, at least not beyond a certain price point, one which I think is lower than most would suspect. At least as sound quality goes, and then there are several aspect of a product that can be quite costly that have little to nothing to do with sound but cosmetics, ergonomics, and pride of ownership (bling factor). |
Do you buy into the "urban legend" that some folks mark up the price higher because selling at a reasonable markup, but lower price point, would result in audiophile dismissing the quality of the product?
This may occur in other industries as well, but it seems many believe it to be true in this one. Yes, it must be a competitive market, but you also have to worry about being "too" cheap to be taken seriously as a countervailing pressure. |
On the amp front, the best sounding SS I have ever heard were some the Pass Aleph 3/2 and the J - all very simple in physical terms of parts and circuit - but always driving easy and sensitive speaker loads. Driving a tough speaker may require more complexity to deal with the load and necessary gain - it does seem his mantra is get the job done as simply as possible; which of course requires some serious design skills to execute - why haiku can be so difficult to do well -- simplicity is difficult. |
It is a miracle that NAD was able to recoup all their R&D costs with a $220 integrated amplifier - I guess selling a million units helped on the profit front. |
You know, like soup kitchens for a rainy day.
As to uber prices, it is not a rip off if the sound is commensurate with the cost, even accepting the law of dimishing returns - unfortuanately some expensive products justify the expense and some do not - eventually the market figures it out, but it can take a long time, especially against concerted advertising and "review" campaigns. |
Because some art is an investment grade asset driven by the psychologogy of scarcity creating "value", and a marketplace with enough buyers for whom having enough money is a small concern. Spending $1,000,000 to get $2,000,000 five years later for some dried paint doesn't seem irrational, though perhaps inexplicable. Though there does not seem to be a correlation between complexity and simplicity and the price of art, unlike some "modern" linestages. |
In economics, "Veblen goods" are items for which buying preference increases as price increases -- as the higher the price, the greater the status -- instead of decreasing according to the law of demand. In other words, one is buying something other than the thing itself and the price untethered from the cost of production or necessarily the inherent quality or function of the goods - the essence of luxury goods (and in audio, having lots of parts and multiple boxes, the heavier the better, the more one can extend what the "market is willing to pay" ). |
True, it is not infinitely elastic, but it can stretch pretty far, why you often seen 10 different tiers of cables running from $3/ft to $3,000/ft - you just never know how much demand there might be to have the very, very, very, absolutely very best. |
