Quick interrupt! The Backfire Effect in so many words. Some think the backfire effect is due to a cognitive deficit: people view unfavorable information as being in agreement with their beliefs (Lebo and Cassino 2007). Nyhan and Reifler, however, interpret backfire effects "as a possible result of the process by which people counterargue preference-incongruent information and bolster their preexisting views." That seems like a roundabout way of saying that people dig in when confronted with evidence contrary to their beliefs, but it doesn't seem to explain why they do so. Another explanation involves communal reinforcement and the assumption that there is more information you don't have that supports your belief. If one knows that there is a community of believers who share your beliefs and one believes that there is probably information you don't have but which would outweigh the contrary information provided, rationalization becomes easier. It is possible that the rationalization process leads one to give more weight to reinforcement by the community of believers. How much play one's belief gets in the media, versus the play of contrary information may also contribute to the backfire effect. If messages supporting your belief are presented far more frequently in the media than messages contrary to your belief, or presented repeatedly by people you admire, the tendency might be to give those supportive messages even more weight than before. |
We have another phrase for this sort of thing. Penny wise and pound foolish. 😬
Everything is relative. A. Einstein 😛 |
I know a thing or two about modding a Sennheiser HD-600.
My new acoustic resonators employ a base that is quite similar to pen blanks, only fatter. Oh, and it uses a slab of agate under the tiny bowl resonator.
I’m like Chickenman. He’s everywhere! He’s everywhere! 🐔 |
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In this business there is such a thing as being too cheap. No offense to anyone living or dead. It’s a risk-reward situation. |
Yes, that was a close call. |
I just ordered an 8 pack of Marigo VTS Dots for my SONY MDR-V700 headphones. The VTS Tuning Dots are constrained layer dampers of various sizes and colors - 2 mm up to about 1” depending on application. Larger VTS Dots are for walls and windows, sliding glass doors, back panel of TV, speaker cabinets, the small ones which vary in size and color go on speaker frames, circuit boards, power cord plugs, chassis of preamp and CD player, CD tray, what have you. Tony the Tiger 🐯 says, Grrrreat!
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Speaking of hardwood blanks a good experiment to do is get several different types of the longer hardwood blanks 12” x 1” x 1” and lean one of the blanks up against the wall behind the speakers in between the speakers and see what that does to the sound. Try different locations behind the speakers. Also try room corners lean the 1 foot blank up against the wall. Other locations to try these blanks are against the side wall out in front of the speakers and at rear corners. Gabon ebony, rosewood, maple, almost any hardwood. Experiment. You are zee controlla. 🤗
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I always assumed it was a technical term. Like doohickey. And no, it doesn’t have anything to do with chicken bones. |
It will be soon. Very soon. I am in the final stage of burning in my SONY MRD-V700 headphones. Both BLACK SR USB devices are suspended by a sub 1.0 Hz thingamabob at a height of 5 ft. All systems go.
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First up...The Moody Blues, A Question of Balance
After he had journeyed,
And his feet were sore,
And he was tired,
He came upon an orange grove
And he rested.And he lay in the cool,
And while he rested,
He took to himself an orange
And tasted it,
And it was good.And he felt the earth to his spine,
And he asked,
And he saw the tree above him,
And the stars,
And the veins in the leaf,
And the light,
And the balance.And he saw magnificent perfection,
Whereon he thought of himself in balance,
And he knew he was.
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Next, Dear Prudence and Glass Onion off the Beatles’ White Album.
Wow! Wow! Wow! 😮 |
I jes knew there was gonna be a sales pitch in there somewheres. I jes knew it! So much for the cheap DIY concept. 😛
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That’s my reaction to the first time listening to my new set up, with two BLACK SR USB devices, new treated and burned in SONY MRD-V700 headphones, new isolation stand for my portable SONY Walkman CD player, new PWB color scheme for the CD, my Mystery Tweak for the CD, and New Dark Matter on the CD tray.
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Whatever you say, pal. I can always use more stalkers. Step right up! |
Moving right along, I checked out my new system this morning with Kraftwerk’s Man Machine. O...M...G!! We are zee robots, etc.🤖 Uncompressed original CD. Oh, I almost forgot to mention my six (count em!) new wood/crystal/brass tiny little bowl acoustic resonators in the room.
A free tweak for anyone who can answer the pop quiz correctly - Why would I put them in the room if I’m listening to headphones? 🎧 |
Every thread needs to have an 🍑🧢 and you just got tagged. 😀
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That’s not too bad, but how can they - the acoustic resonators - affect the person if they’re acoustic resonators? Acoustic waves are mechanical as opposed to electromagnetic. The SF thingamabob is electromagnetic. Furthermore, not all electromagnetic waves are suspected of affecting the individual, if it’s even true that the SF does. It is difficult to prove. Generally speaking, they - electromagnetic waves - RFI/EMI - are known to affect the audio signal or power signal. The 7.8 Hz SF wave is a special case, like Alpha waves. 😳
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So far, I’m not seeing how acoustic resonators can be “felt by the body,” especially given the fact that they REDUCE acoustic wave energy in the room. Besides, there is no evidence, at least that I’ve seen, that we hear acoustic waves with our body, with the obvious exception of low bass frequencies. |
Before I answer let’s see if there are any other players. |
The answer is surprisingly simple. I was alerted to this by John Atkinson, former editor of Stereophile Magazine, some years ago. I like what you’re saying but you have only won half a prize so far. Will I have to cut it in half? Is there such a thing as half a Nobel prize? If time did not exist man would have to invent it.
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That’s way way off. There are no resonances from furniture or windows or anything else in the room that are of sufficient amplitude 🔝 to interfere with headphones 🎧 listening - especially given that my new SONY MRD-V700’s are uh, sealed. Not to mention that seismic type vibration that could possibly produce vibration in furniture or other objects in the room are generally below ⬇️ audio frequencies. Hel-loo!
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I’m awarding negative credit to thecarpathian for arguing.
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Are you guys high or something? |
This conversation can serve no porpoise 🐬 any more. Carry on. Smoke if ya got em. |
Thanks for the excellent example of Backfire Effect. Anyone can always find something to support some ridiculous idea if you search the internet hard enough. Good luck in your quest for cheapness. |
I will wait around a while this morning for someone to answer my Pop Quiz correctly. Then, if the correct answer is not forthcoming I will reveal why tiny bowl 🍲 acoustic resonators work in a room with headphones. Fair enough? For those who did not win this time around or chose not to respond take solace in the fact there will be other pop quizzes. 😛 |
Thread resuscitation. Pop quiz! Hooray!! 🤗
Go buy a box of Good N Plenty or Mike and Ike multi-colored candy. Before opening the box shake up the box for a few seconds to make the candies inside the box are randomly distributed. Then, slowly pour out all the candies out into a shallow bowl. Notice how the various colors tend to collect together according to color in a non-random way.
Free tweak to the first person to give the correct explanation why the candies form clusters of the same color. Your choice of New Dark Matter, two Blue Meanies or four Flying Saucers for Windows.
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I almost forgot, if anyone tries this experiment the idea is to pour the multi-color hard candies out of the box from a height 🔝 of several inches into the shallow bowl so they bounce around a little bit 🔝 🔝 🔝 before they settle down.
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Now I’m feeling really good and smart that I decided to get off the house AC a few years ago, even though I didn’t expect very much. No more AC ground issues, no AC voltage issues, or RFI/EMI contamination, no more big honking 🦆 🦆 power supplies, no more power cords, no more transformer, no more fuses. No more pencils, no more books. No more teacher’s dirty looks. |
Your comments comport very well with some of my customers’ comments from 15 years ago. To whit,
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"I placed one "Mikro" size bottle on a Quantum Symphony Pro tonight and was astounded that such a small bottle could improve upon the sound of the Large bottles (which are on top of my PSB Stratus Mini speakers). I listened to two live recordings and was astonished how easy it is to hear ambience cues. The soundstage was wider AND taller. And now the speakers actually do seem to play louder and softer, depending on the signal; I had not heard that from my system before. Now, It's quite difficult to turn the system off." - Mike Gallaro, August 2005
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"Just wanted to let you know I received the two Large Brilliant Pebbles Saturday afternoon. I immediately unpacked them and placed them in the rear corners of my listening room, behind the listener position. I warmed up the system for a couple of hours, then listened to some CDs I had listened to the night before. It was clear from the outset that the BPs enhanced the male and female voice and produced more fleshed-out bass without loss of speed; stringed instruments, especially guitar, were produced with a sheen and a quieter background, quite unexpectedly. I was extremely happy with the results! An Audiophile for over thirty years, I was inclined to remove the BPs from the room and replay the same discs. No good! -- I already missed the BPs. When my lovely wife called me for dinner, I placed the Pebbles in the front corners (behind the speakers) and went upstairs. When I returned to the listening room two hours later and played the same discs with the BPs in their new locations, to say I was stunned by the sound would be an understatement!! Everything I'd heard with the BPs in the rear corners was increased ten fold! The BPs are the best tweak to come along since sliced bread. Who'd have thought that pebbles in a small bottle would have such a positive effect on a high end system? My system: Krell amp, Classe two box pre, DCS upsampler, Levinson Dac, Accustic Arts transport, Eggleston speakers, Exact Powers and Hydra conditioners, Jena Labs cabling, Bybee filters all over the place and Clearaudio Magix vibration footers under all components. All I can say is, Bravo! -- a tweak that really works and is inexpensive to boot!" - Rich Lerner, July 2005
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"A brief progress report: The upper corners behind my listening position work!!! I'm amazed at the difference. And I thought my system was pretty tweaked and tuned, etc. The BPs seem to affect the entire musical spectrum---from the lows to the highs. The soundstage seems much better defined, similar to the effect I experienced when I installed Aurios in my system. The BPs have even more impact -- each individual instrument/performer seems to have taken on a greater presence and vibrancy as well as being better defined. It seems kinda strange -- the individual seems to be larger or fuller or have greater presence, but not at the expense of the others performers - at the same time the soundstage is better defined and less congested." - Ray Lou, June 2005
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The sound pressure peaks are room and system dependent (radiation pattern of speakers, distance from walls, etc.) and the amplitude of the peaks is dependent on the loudness of the system. but generally speaking the peaks can often exceed the average loudness by 6 tp 9 dB. Some examples of locations where very high sound pressures occur - room corners, between speakers and behind them, first reflection points/areas, room echoes (wall to wall). Also, standing waves that can occur anywhere in the 3D space of the room. |
Give me a T. Give me an R. |
I thought you said you put crysutals inside and around the headphones and cables. Perhaps I misunderstood. 😬
Of course the washing machine doesn’t affect the sound as much as the electrical panel. Even if you’re washing clothes while your system is playing. |
What is really helpful is a test tone track on a test CD and SPL meter to locate all the sound pressure peaks in the 3D space of the room. You would be shocked how many there are. Those peaks are where crystal should go. I found all audio applications for crystals almost twenty years ago. I wrote a white paper. 😬
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Question to the group - How can one be sure that micro or macro crystals are acting on magnetism or electromagnetism (RFI/EMI) and not simply vibration? Answer at 11.
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So, it was touching, right? I never said it had to be wrapped tightly. 😬 We know vibration is an issue with cables. That why we elevate or suspend cables and power cords.
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Places to try crystals -
glass windows
glass doors
power cord plug
wall outlet
wall outlet cover
room walls (knuckle test to locate vibration nodes)
RCA connectors of interconnects
tube traps
Skyline and similar diffusers
fuse/fuse holders
printed circuit boards
inside speaker cabinets
large crystals in room corners on the floor
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Bingo! We have a match! 🤗 |
Flattery will get you everywhere with me.
When confronted with opposing theories pick the theory that gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling. - Old audiophile axiom |
Crystals 301 Piezoelectricity is the electric charge that accumulates in certain solid materials (such as crystals, certain ceramics, and biological matter such as bone, DNA and various proteins)[1]in response to applied mechanical stress. The word piezoelectricity means electricity resulting from pressure and latent heat. It is derived from the Greek word πιέζειν; piezein, which means to squeeze or press, and ἤλεκτρον ēlektron, which means amber, an ancient source of electric charge.[2][3] French physicists Jacques and Pierre Curie discovered piezoelectricity in 1880.[4] The piezoelectric effect results from the linear electromechanical interaction between the mechanical and electrical states in crystalline materials with no inversion symmetry.[5] The piezoelectric effect is a reversible process: materials exhibiting the piezoelectric effect (the internal generation of electrical charge resulting from an applied mechanical force) also exhibit the reverse piezoelectric effect, the internal generation of a mechanical strain resulting from an applied electrical field. For example, lead zirconate titanate crystals will generate measurable piezoelectricity when their static structure is deformed by about 0.1% of the original dimension. Conversely, those same crystals will change about 0.1% of their static dimension when an external electric field is applied to the material. The inverse piezoelectric effect is used in the production of ultrasonic sound waves.[6][ |
This is starting to get a little silly but there is the piezoelectric effect AND there’s the reverse piezoelectric effect. They are two separate characteristic of many but not all crystals. I am not (rpt not) arguing about the effect of crystals on the sound. Why would I? |
You choose to believe the rf answer. I italicized the term Reverse Piezoelectric Effect in that comment/explanation because I wanted you to see that applying an electrical signal to crystals (the opposite of piezoelectric effect) activates the crystal vibration. This makes the crystal a better vibration damper. Crystals don’t attract, shield or absorb electromagnetic waves - I.e., radio frequencies. Crystals almost always act as resonators - I.e., resonance control devices. You are experiencing the Backfire Effect, that’s all. You have been blinded by science. 😎
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Thread hijacker extraordinaire. I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it certainly appears we don’t need glupson any more.
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Don’t quit your day job, which one assumes is probably Target 🎯 or Panera Bread 🥖 . Metaphors be with you!
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Thou shall not curry favor with obsequious English majors. - old audiophile axiom
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If you see someone who looks a lot like Tom Cruise that’s probably me. |
Two guys are sitting next to each other on a commercial jet. One guy turns to the other and says, “Those people down there look just like ants.” The other guy responds, “They are ants. We haven’t left the ground yet.”
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I’m giving serious consideration to promoting you to my chief Brilliant Pebbles salesman. It’s a good thing I took atomic physics in school. But seriously, your enthusiasm is contagious. A-choo! Next up, shall we consider introducing the concept of sound hierarchy, which states that if a reasonably good system can be much improved by tweaking what does that imply for really good systems? I mean no offense to anyone with the term, inexpensive system as I have one of the absolute least expensive systems extant. Total system cost around $20. But that does not include tweaks, which I venture to say is well into the many thousands.
There many ways to skin a cat 🐈
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance.😳 |
