I just compared the same song of a singer on my 500 bucks system and in my controlled room with something 1/4 of a million or 1/2 millions bucks system...For sure it is not a direct comparison...but even if it is impossible to compare 2 audio system qualitywise if the comparison is at a distance, it is possible to compare one which is detailed and musical with one which is detailed BUT not musical and in which tonal timbre are unnatural and this even at distance like in this case because nevermind the distance the better of the 2 will stay better and the worst will stay worst EVEN if we listen to it through the better one.... It is enough for me anyway....i know that i will stay with my actual audio system ...
All those who think that audiophile sound come first from the gear design are in error.... The main factor are the 3 working embeddings dimensions, especially the acoustic.... If we think rationally about audio it is only common sense....But i never realized myself that simple truth till these days and will have never realize it if i had all the money to upgrade in a chase of the moon search for Hi-FI.... Acoustic control MAY and CAN cost nothing and it is the most singular powerful factor.... NO UPGRADE AT ANY COST can replace the room factor....OK i Am tired to repeat my mantra, those who will listen to it will benefit , the others will throw money never knowing where is the peak of the mountain....
i will summarize in this way this comparizon between the costly system and mine: A very detailed sound is good BUT details without a fluid natural softness and without a natural tonal timbre for the singer voice not only it is fatiguing but unbearable for me EVEN if i listend to it through my own system.... If i was in this room i will probably have an heart attack.... But incredibly many people consider this "sound" very good because even it is not musical at all it is like a microscope...But it is an illusion, a decetion, i own all these details already in my sound but integrated in a musically natural way.... It is like comparing the Worst S.S. with the best tubes amplifier....My impression is my system catch the same details than the pricey system but in a more musical flowing way but mark my word i dont denigrate this costly excellent system , IT IS THE ROOM and THE ELECTRICAL GRID of the owner which is not controlled that give a so bad soiund for my ears i know it not his gear.......... The problem of this costly system is not the gear quality, it is top, it is the embeddings probably the electrical and the acoustical one especially... I know nobody will believe my impression, i will not believe it myself if i was not listening to it right now.... My 500 bucks system will need NO upgrade in the future if it does not break....My goal is reached with this Helmholtz mechanical Eq.
😁😁😁😁😁😁😊😊😊😊😊
I can safely say that the controlled of the 3 embeddings of a system, especially the room control is more important than the price of ANY system....
My mechanical equalizer is my best device.....
I am done with the frantic search to create an Hi-Fi system for the poor....Its done....my system is absolutely not the best there is and i will never boast about it, but i am very proud of my devices controls at peanutrs cost and my discovery of the main importance of these embeddings controls thats all.... I will go mute....
My best to all......
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The only way to explain why so much people are convinced that the best way to obtain S.Q. is ONLY OR MAINLY moving toward costly upgrades is social conformity by market conditioning practice ... I was thinking exactly that 7 years ago, i was convinced that without costly gear no one can pretend to great musical sound quality.... And i was very angry and frustrated because i cannot afforded my dreamed gear at all.... It was in fact a great luck for me indeed... This frustration turn me on a mission to satisfy myself.... The rest of the story is in this "vuts" thread with all my experiments, sometimes crazy, sometimes less crazy and a few times very very good...Especially my use of dissymetric compression of springs boxes, my golden plates and my Mechanical Helmholtz equalizer.... The famous 1950 experiment of Solomon Asch explain evrything we must kmow about social conformity.... The link is here: https://www.simplypsychology.org/asch-conformity.html
All actors, engineers that work hard to create good products, the consumers that bought them, the reviewers that sells them all are of good faith, they are only convinced that the "shorter"line in Ash experiment is the "longest/" one, for the same reason, autocondinioning to conform to the general collective opinion.... S.Q. is linearly related to increasingly better electronic design, and linearly related to prices.... It is all wrong.... The way we seat a system in our room IS the main factor and the cost could be peanuts...I called that the controls over the 3 working dimensiuons of any audio system.... All reader already know my "song"...😁😊 The acoustic control overpower anything in the S.Q. increase.... Lesson learned by myself....But the father of acoustic Helmholtz already know that before the invention of modern audio.... He invent modern room control.... For sure being not an idiot i dont affirm that all speakers, dac, or amplifiers for example are equal in quality...I only affirm that pick 3 "relatively good" pieces of gear between these three elements, and embed them rightfully and compare the same 3 elements in the same non controllerd environment this time and it will be a night and day differences; almost impossible to erase this difference in S.Q. with an upgrade, with a second upgrade, or even a third upgrade.... You cannot avoid or replace the embeddings controls with a piece of gear or many pieces....Especially the acoustical one.... My best to all..... |
Mahgister, you are like a patchwork quilt. Costly is a relative term. There is top notch equipment out there that is not at all frivolous relatively speaking. Better equipment is always a possibility. However there are things you can do that will greatly increase the performance of a system, room design and treatment are great examples. Isolating a turntable correctly is another. "Market conditioning" is exactly what convinces lay audiophiles to spend money on garbage that does absolutely nothing and at times makes things worse.
The main problem is that many audiophiles really do not know how or care to evaluate equipment and changes correctly. They think that just listening is enough. The problem with this is that it is not and they are giving advise based on this extraordinary faulty method. If they stayed within their own world then fine. But instead they tell people to "trust your own ears." It's like someone trying to get in a Moto GP race whose never been on a motorcycle. All you have to do is trust your own instincts right? Try that snow skiing and you will keep falling up hill. All you have to do is listen and you become an expert in evaluating audio equipment?
You are lucky! I dissected you insane and completely sophistic post but i lost my page and i will not take the time to rewrite it... It is completely stupid... Comparing audio listener to racer of formula 1 ! 😁😊😊😊😋😋😋 And why not imposing to them the legal obligation to buy a "listener" license after a course in electronic market consumerism to teach them what they must buy in the future instead of using this low graded and dangerous and "faulty" sense called " hearing" anyway.... Are you a stand up comic? |
I will give an example of the LISTENER ENVELOPMENT concept and acoustical experience (LEV) for any audio system to test yourself... It take a great control of the room to hear this : Threepenny opera of Kurt Weill with Lotte Lenya 1958 version : https://www.amazon.com/Weill-Threepenny-Opera-Kurt/dp/B0000026HI/ref=pd_sbs_2?pd_rd_w=6koxC&pf_r... listen side no 15, The procurer ballad, 4minute 38 seconds: In my room the male voice sound in my left ear like with an headphone, same for the feminine voice singing in my right ear at the same moment, the 2 voices seems coming from behind me, opposite to the speakers locations and the orchestra are in front of me behind the actual speakers, at 8 feet distance, filling all my wall between the speakers but behind this wall.... i have the impression of 2 other virtual speakers behind each side of my ears.... Like if there are 4 speakers in my room... There are many sides of this cd that give the same effect not only this 15th side...But this one is particularly spectacular...You will undestand why i trash my 7 headphones in a drawer and will never bought none other.... This is in my regular sitting position... It is no more true in nearfield listening....Where the sound seems a "bit" more detailed but is less livelier or less natural and sound exactly like in an headphone but better with my speakers/room... Passive and active room controls work EVEN for near listening, contrary to a false popular misunderstanding of the way and of extraordinary speed of sound crossing the room and affecting it, in relation with the 80 milliseconds of critical analysis time treatment from the brain to make sense of these wavefronts travelling near 80 times per second in my room...Each wavefront is a bunch of frequencies travelling together... It is an example of ACTIVE room control of the "listener envelopment" factor called LEV Listener envelopment ...LEV is the degree to which the reverberant sound, of the first main 2 wavefronts coming from the right and left speakers to the 2 ears directly but also indirectly from early and late reflections encounter themselves for each one of the ears and seems to surround the listener—to come from all directions, thanks to the active controls of the Helmholtz method... This listener envelopment factor in relation with the source width factor (ASW) put you on the scene of the past recording live event and make you able to live anew the live event like the recording engineer choice of microphones and location choices of these same microphones make it possible, it is a perspective take on the real event created by the engineer... The original event is not only in your room now, but you are actually there also....All recording are not on the same level of 3 dimensionnality it is the reason i choose this recording for a clear example....
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Mahgister
I would like to purchase the world’s first hand made artisanal Listener Envelopment Sphere Helmholtz Mechanical Equalizer from you. I do not want a duplicate, subsequent iteration or refined version of the product, even if it is an improvement - only the original will do. Name your price.
Also, for a separate charge, I would like to purchase a set of in-person multi factor listening room tuning sessions (acoustic, mechanical, electrical and envelopment sphere). My wife has agreed to waive all aesthetic constraints, so you will not be limited whatsoever in our joint pursuit of sonic perfection. Included in the price will be first class airfare to NYC and a 5 star hotel stay. Cost no object - say when. Thanks for the best funny post answer in my thread to date... 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊 I am allergic to crowd of more than 2 people, and i have never travel in all my life...I navigated the infinite instead, reading... I dont give a damn about money sorry....I am too old to need money either... Take 24 pipes and tubes make them a telescopic array in various location of your room, select very thin diameter, 4 times thinner than a regular straw for the necks, experiment with the lenght, have fun and open your ears, and spare your money... Or buy a 100,000 bucks audio system and convince yourself it is the best in the world even if it is not true... Mine is the best in the world for his 500 bucks price, if not, one among the better....Anyway i dont give a damn when listening my music... Yesterday Satyagraha of Philip Glass... a big test for any audio system.... Then no need for money to upgrade.... No need to sell you anything....My mechanical equalizer is a free design idea for all.... In my life i was teaching university students in all fields how to read and what to read, and i prefer now to sell creativity and motivation in audio experiment like in my past job, than to sell products or books.... Nevermind the day, the sun is enthusiast even behind clouds and we walk with him under the rain..... My best to you...... |
I wish I could listen to this live at your place. But you describe the sensation so deliciously that one can feel them almost as if they were alive. You have a talent for writing convincingly.
I know how important it is to work on the listening room in such a manner and read your advises with great interest. Now i have to digest them.
Thank you once again. My goal here was to insist about the not very well known fact that it is impossible to overestimated the power of room control over an upgrade of electrical gear, if our basic actual gear is relatively good for sure to begin with tough... This subtle point have escaped many.... My audio system is only an average 500 bucks well chosen pieces tough, and surprizing only because of my working embedding controls... Like i already said without any controls my system,in spite of being a good one sounded awful to my taste.... It is completely different now....People upgrade because they dont know HOW to install their system in an optimal settings to gain the optimal sound quality.... And all audio market pointed only to upgrades like the ONLY solution for an audiophile experience.... And owners of 100,000 dollars system dont like my pretense... But i never pretend that my system sound like a 100,000 bucks one, only more musical if their system is badly embedded... And it is this way most of the times.... It is more easy to bought ,plug and play that thinking hard about embeddings controls and taking the time needed to do it.... But it was fun....And cost peanuts... My deepest respect to you and thanks for your kind interest... |
No crowds to worry about - I will send the rest of the family away on a vacation somewhere (including my Vizsla - but he is an adorable little fool who likes music and you may just want him prancing around with us as we optimize my listening space)..
And since money is not of any interest to you, please allow me to instead upgrade your system to a 6 figure one - I shudder like a Sc-Human resonator at the thought of what your passive and active multi factor controls could do when paired with a system of that caliber.. I dont know if you are joking or not anymore...But i know that you like to mock audiophile very much....especially the one who take themselves seriously like me...Then i can smile with you.... But anyway when i listen music in my system, in spite of his limitations, the sound already fill my room and is very good... I dont want to improve it by working on your system or any other one for a month full time or more sorry...It take times not money to tune a system.... If i could do it, you could; with all the cues i gave in my thread the fun will be yours to make it yourself.... My room is completely "nut" esthetically, and strangers want to put me on an asylum, before listening to my system tough...Not so much after...i remind you that NONE of my devices cost more than peanuts... 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😊😊😊😊😊😊 Thanks for the offer tough....If i was 20 years old i would have loved to travel free of charge....But like i said i prefer now walking my dog.... Add me to your list of "nut" audiophile in the mean time, i dont give a damn... Thanks for the laughs....But for now it is enough, i will go back to music... |
mahgister, have you ever encountered meteorites in your practice? I read on Russian forums there are people who highly appreciate their ability to influence the sound. I wonder how they compare to shungite. Yes i experimented with around 30 varietes of minerals First- all has a DISTINCTIVE effect....Difficult to describe in words... For example kambaba jasper give to the sound an airy atmosphere...Agate give meat to the bone.... quartz give a decompression and a clarity that can be harsh in some spot or on some system...Etc etc I can go for a page... Two- i used them near secondary electronic pieces of gear and main one... They give all their peculiar "colors" to the sound....And using them together balance their effects... But this effect even if it is audible is in no way comparable to electrical, mechanical, or acoustical controls devices...Understand me right here... And idiots will mock my experiments... Three- meteorite are rich with iron and they could enhance the sound in a par ticular way especially if your system is too warm.... If your system is already bright it will cause harshness... tough or a kind of "shrill" effect st some frequency range into the sound quality Four- Now i use minerals on my electrical main box for the house and on the external main electrical cable of the house.... Cheap minerals like agate etc...But my main devices all along the electrical grid in my house is my "golden plate"... All that decrease the noise floor level...And what they add to the sound is not negative in any count because they balance themselves et complement them selves... I used also agate of madagascar tourmaline kambaba jasper quartz on my cables at the end with thin "golden plate" or on the wall plug of my rooms... In conclusion save for my "golden plates"+herkimer diamonds, i dont experiment now anymore with minerals....i let them in the place where i used them like behind speakers posts etc It was the first phase of my audio experiments with mechanical isolation.... The second phase was my discovery of the golden plates for electrical control of my grid.... i also created my Schumann generators grid at this moment...Experimented also with many kind of resonators + my first passive acoustical treatment the third phase just ended with passive room tratment and begins with more activated room controls, with ionizers and schumann generators but especially important : my mechanical equalizer.... This is the most powerful of my control device... i am done now because i enjoy really greaat S.Q. for a 500 hundred bucks system... I even prefer my sound to most costly system i listen to....It is not prefect but relatively more natural sound than most and a room holography superior to most also... But i also encountered the limitations now and the ceiling of S.Q. with my actual gear in fact with my speakers now... This would be the only serious upgrade i will do if i had money.... But it is impossible to do it by lack of the very big money necessary to this upgrade.... My system is already so good i dont want to upgrade and this will be too costly anyway... Imagine you want to upgrade a very good speakers in a very well controlled room and you cannot listen to the new speakers before purchasing them ? If my S.Q. was not so good it will not be a problem but now buying what? And which branded name product will be truly better and at what price? I am afraid to risk buying anything anyway and the idea to bought 5 or 6 thousand dollars speakers to upgrade these Mission Cyrus 781 paid 50 bucks used, which produced enough bass clarity to spare me a subwoofer i never used anyway and which are very good quality speakers for their price range is for me insane and a frightening risk.... Then i am done with audio i listen music many hours each day.... The sound dont bother me at all it is good in my 2 listening position and i trash my 7 headphones then.... I apologize for my navigation out of the meteorite island here in the dreaming sea... The key to audio is ACOUSTIC.... all the rest all my other devices were very useful but not on the same transforming level....My mechanical equalizer is powerful for tuning a room and i am very proud of this idea... If this thread is useful it will be to give this only advice: audio joy is linked to a dedicated room where someone can control acoustic.... Simple....But no audio magazine ever said this truth clearly, normal they sell pieces of gear.... And i remind you that my acoustic passive and active controls never cost me more than a dime.... Then this truth is too dangerous to be said loud..... 😁😊😊😊😊😊😎😎😎😉😉😉😊 Thanks for your interest.... My best to you.....My deepest respect.... |
UPDATE:
THE HELMHOLTZ MECHANICAL EQUALIZER
Just a remark i forget to make about the H.M.E.
The location of the tubes and pipes in the room cannot be anywhere...
For an optimized result i placed myself for example a bunch of them to my right and another bunch to my left on the first reflective point/surface near the wall....
Another bunch with the bigger one 8 feet high are behind my listening position ...
Roughly like a triangle formation in my room...
I tested that by moving only 3 pipes of these 24 pipes from a position near one speaker but not facing the direct wave of the speaker... The result : the decrease of the imaging was immediately audible...
I replaced it to my right with another bunch already there, near the first reflection point/surface.... Result: better imaging....Better mid-frequencies...
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Acoustics are primary, that’s a fact, but electronics can also be a bottleneck if you don’t pay attention to them. For sure you are right... But my point is related to the fact that it is very easy to buy a good audio system at low price.... By easy i means if we read like i did for over hundreds and hundreds of hours carefully... But anyway it is the easy part... 😊 All the working embeddings we must do and figure out is the hard part of this hobby... The acoustic is the most consuming time controls to install rightfully and i figure out myself that passive material treatment sometimes is not enough... With the mechanical equalizer tuning almost complete, i am done... Some other imprevisible improvements tecnique or devices for sure exist which i never think of, but my S.Q. is satisfying completely....Or almost....Then i am done with my listening experiments and i am even more in non critical music listening... Imagine i just look for Chostakovitch symphonies directed by his son.... I will enjoy them in the late nights to come.... My best to you.... |
SECOND UPDATE:
THE HELMHOLTZ MECHANICAL EQUALIZER or H.M.E.
I can describe my H.M.E. like a SNAKE which has his HEAD (2 thin straws of different size) one inches 1/2 near the tweeter of my left speakers. The TAIL is 2 inches away from the bass diver of the right speaker (2 pipes one is a very big straw with a neck made with a very thinner one and the other a metal tubes 2 feet high with a 1/4 inch diameter) To these 2 pipes at the right speaker bass driver, i added yesterday a bigger, tube 15 inches high, made of toilet paper cardboard rolls 😁, closed with plastic sheet, with a neck 5 inch long and with the thinner possible straw diameter for his neck...
In my room,the other 2 set of 6 pipes and tubes of various size,diameter and necks are located at the first reflection points to my right and left, the last 7 one are behind me with the biggest one, 8 feet high....
My H.M.E. grid is a snake which has a head, a tail and a body, each part with different pressure zone damping and enhancing his own set of frequencies...The body enhance room wavefronts, the head and tail enhance speaker wavefronts....This is the CORE of my idea....
The dissymetric position of the head and tails in relation with the tweeter from one speaker and the bass driver of the other speakers is the SECRET MAGICAL component of my H.M.E. snake grid, the first wave front of sound coming from one speaker and the other one coming from the other speaker gives to EACH ear a different cue, these different cues made the brain more apt to recreate a third holograhic sound encompassing completely the listener....
I was inspired by the last research of three Japanese acoustician in 2008 analysing the way the brain act in different timing tresholds between the direct early and late wavefronts...Reading it give me the idea on the spot.... My idea is my own application of their analysis and is not in the paper.... I am very proud of that invention so to speak.....😊
The addition of this last cardboard tube was the "cherry on the cake", and was no short of spectacular on ALL count of acoustic features....I was sure few days ago that nothing was missing but i was not right...I listened yesterday to some small negative resonance at some mid frequencies in my best harpsichord file, unnoticed till now... I decide to act and i win the bet on the spot!
It was a so great improvement that i cannot believe it myself...
I listen to a very well known files of Bach Golberg variations, by Fretwork ensemble.... Incredibly i listened to them for the first time being there with them in the studio....The "listener envelopment" acoustical experience was more striking than ever at a maximum possible level this time....The timbre of wood instruments in my Brandenburg concertos were also more accurate and distinctive....
I was flabbergasted because i have written here few posts ago that the experiment with H.M.E. was closed.....
It seems something was lacking all along that i did not perceive in only few hours of listenings , it takes days....
I cannot imagine any real change of this level to come from my H.M.E. for the future....But i will not bet on that anymore now... 😁😊😎
My audio quest is terminate that is for sure.....No upgrading will interest me ever now.....It is way better to create sound with "paper toilet rolls " than buying the illusion with a very costly system....
I know that most cannot believe what i spoke about here but it is my journey and i wish to be useful to some....
Trust yourself, and create without after tought....After the heart the ear is the greatest master....
Addendum:
Like usual all improvements are there on regular position or in nearfield position similarly but differently.... |
I love his early chamber works, where he plays the piano himself. Brilliant Trio Op. 67 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUorALVwVHA. The cello flageolets at the beginning are just a kind of a mystery. And how eloquently does Oistrakh violin speak! Thanks....I discovered Chostakovich music with his piano works which are for me very beautiful and powerfully expressive of the contemporary state of the soul in this century.... My most admired composer is Scriabin.... His music is the most powerful ever written for piano....And one of the most transformative music ever written.... His music is designed specifically to transform human soul not for esthetic enjoyment first, it is the reason why playing it is almost out of the range of almost all pianist save a few....Sofronitsky being king here....I.Zukhov second for me....And few others russian masters on par with him.... Russian piano school is the best in the world....Soul first, technic second.... But who knowns and listen unknown pianist master in America like Neuhaus? |
FOURTH UPDATE:
THE HELMHOLTZ MECHANICAL EQUALIZER or H.M.E.
Addition of a tube made with 7 toilet rolls paper, 20 inches, on the right corner of my loading platform on top of the right speakers (the TAIL of my snake)... I used straws of different diameters for the neck...The tube are so light they dont too much modify my tightly fine tuned speaker loading mass on top of this platform ....
Never say never to a possible change for the better.....😁😊
This addition modify greatly the soundstage and the LEV "listener envelopment" factor this time....In my 2 positions nearfield and regular listening position...
This time it is my last take.... After an undending streams of improvement, nothing more is possible....The sound fills all my room but with a better imaging and better bass ...I am sure nobody believe me that only few rolls of toilet paper can produce a HUGE improvement....
The improvement is for the 2 positions like i just said but my God! in the near listening position it is even more impactful....
People really believe that paying 100,000 bucks for speakers will give them the best sound...Sorry It will not be the case without the Queen permission...
Acoustic is a Queen without mercy ! But what a lover this sleeping princess could be....
This time i am done.... What in hell could be better? 😊😁😁😁😊😊😎😎😉
I will repeat an unbeknown truth, a room is NOT a passive set of walls waiting for some costly bass traps or an electronical equalizer... 😁 A room wait to be ACTIVATED for the EARS, by the addition of different controlling pressures zones devices acting on the normally emerging uncontrolled pressure zones created already by the coming sound in this specific room.... This is what my SNAKE, the H.M. E., do....Activating the room, transforming a dead body in a living beauty... |
Before talking about my last upgrading of the H.M.E. i will say three important facts and signs about any room acoustic done right, even if some will not believe me at all because it is a so incredible transformation to live through:
You know you have some great acoustical settings controls in place,
(A)- You know that you are done or almost done when none of your 7 headphones can compete anymore with your room....None of my dynamics, hybrid, electrostatic nor planar magnetic headphones...There are all in a drawer...Few years ago the same speakers were no match for them.... 😁😊
Why?
Because AN HEADPHONE SHELL IS LIKE A ROOM but like an uncontrolled room , with vibrations and resonance problem plaguing it, the electrical noise floor is there also waiting to be decreased and the acoustical volume of this shell is like a room with his untamed pressure zones...... They need total controls like any room.... But it is very difficult to install the three embeddings controls in a shell....I know it, i modified with some success ALL my headphones when i begins my journey 7 years ago... At this time i believe that it will be impossible for me to create a very good speakers system that will beat a good headphone, especially with 50 bucks used speakers like the one i use now .... They are vintage one and very good one, Mission Cyrus 781, BUT i believe with the knowledge i had that they will be under par with any good headphone...It was true in the beginning BEFORE i created my own solutions to the three dimensions working embeddings controls.... Then i bought 9 pairs of headphone and keep 7 of them with the passing years....Things begins to change a little 2 years ago....And change seriously with the H.M.E.
(B)- You know that you are done or almost done when your regular listening position became better than even the nearfield position, on par with details but more LIVELY and more natural with a soundstage encompassing you in the 2 positions...
(C)- You know that you are done or almost done WHEN your 2 way stereo system in some case, relatively to some well recorded cd, sometimes will give you the total illusion that you have listened to FOUR SPEAKERS not 2...Voices or instruments comes directly sometimes in each one of your ear or inside your head or coming from your back while the 2 speakers are all this time however in front of you....
When these 3 experiences are yours.... You are done with acoustical settings or almost, because there is always a small or not so small improvement possible for sure.... Like the one i will speak about in my next post....
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
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FIFTH UPDATE:
THE HELMHOLTZ MECHANICAL EQUALIZER or H.M.E.
The H.M.E. is a snake whose body is an array of 30 tubes and pipes now.... I added a last one made of cardboard paper toilet rolls 😁 21 inches high with a 12 inches neck with a diameter of the mouth of the neck 1/3 of a straw diameter, and put it on top of the damping load which are on my speaker.... I added this one to my right speaker only, the TAIL of the snake...I move the long very thin neck made of 2 straw parts in the direction of the corner where the speaker is recessed in the wall corner.... Result: better dynamic and improvement in the balance between LEV and ASW... This last tube is near another one on this speaker with their 2 necks at 90 degree of one another....
The " tail speaker" is activated with 3 tubes near the bass driver.... The " head speaker" is activated by 2 thin tubes near the tweeter.... This difference separate the 2 direct wavefronts coming from each speaker, these 2 wavefronts reflect on the walls of my room early and lately, but differently for each ear, this difference help the brain to recreate spatial cues of three dimensionality and also the right balance between the listener envelopment factor LEV. and the relative source width ASW. The timing between late and early reflections and the reflections coming from behind my head are crux of the matter in creating this balance but also the distinctive voice of the 2 direct frontwaves coming from the speakers...This distinction between the head and tail speakers is the secret of my H.M. E.
The long neck of my tubes and pipes can be turned around 360 degree angle than sometimes it is useful experimenting with the change of pressure in the right zone of the room....
The effect is audible like usual in my 2 listening position....
What a journey! How fun it was! and at no cost.....
Someone asked me if i think that my system is better than some costly one.... For sure not, theoretically, practically it is very relative to the room where the good system are working.... But trust me i trail the best system and i am behind for sure, with my 500 bucks system, how could it be otherwise anyway? BUT NOT far , far behind, nearer than i never think possible in my wildest dream....And when the music is there in the room no one think about a costly upgrade anymore....
I will love that someone with a very costly system would listen to my 500 bucks system....The surprize would not be for me....For sure my system will be probably less performative but not so far behind for peanuts costs... 😎
That was the point i wanted to made: "audiophile experience which is not poor at all for the poors"....
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My next move will be hang the loudspeakers from the ceiling by four wires. This will allow them tree horizontal movements and realizes Sven Boenickes
If you do that report the results of your comparison here please.... I will be very thankful for that... Regards.... |
I will also dig into these Golden Strings of yours The audible effect of the golden strings are there but not comparable to the most important of my discovery with my tuned damped double set of springs use, and the "golden plate" and the S.G. grid... It is the Helmholtz "mechanical equalizer"... Read my thread in reverse the more important is at the end.... Thanks... |
I would not say there is a loss in bass... the bass has a different quality, less punch but more texture.
This is good... The texture is what is important.... It is then positive... |
Thanks for the impression.... it is indeed interesting.....
But the lost in some bandwidth indicate that perhaps it is not better than my double dissymetrcally compressed springs sets over and under the damped speakers....
I have all the bass in the world and i dont think that gaining in the higher bandwith and losing in the bass will be an improvement.... But it is an impression.... It would be necessary to experiment..... I am too glad with my actual situation to do so tough...
😊
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@cd318 Thank you for your kind words.
After some time with the suspended speakers, I grew to like this setup even more. I can listen to music for hours without fatigue.
The motivation to try this was: With suspension, loudspeakers can move freely in the horizontal plane. And they will, in response to the music signal emitted by the drivers (Newton 3rd law). However, they do so with a frequency below the audible spectrum and the movements have no detrimental effect on the sound. To the contrary, the fixation of loudspeakers with stands, spikes etc. may transform these movements into nasty sound colorations.
How do you suspend them? |
I drilled four holes to the top of each loudspeaker case and inserted threads that take lugs. There are four ropes per speaker. Each speaker weighs 25 kg. At the ceilings, the four lugs are positioned wider compared to the top of the speaker.
Thanks very good advice indeed.... |
I used 1 mm stainless steel cables. Maybe other choices could improve the results?
I dont think nylon cable will improve but..... How do you attach the cable? |
Anyway, I am looking forward to realize more of your solutions that you generously publish here, mahgister. This is a journal of my journey... But concentrate yourself on these important one: The golden plates, The shumann generator grid, The spring method for isolation but the suspension is probably better then this one is done.... The Helmholtz mechanical equalizer....The most impactful.... |
Capitalism is a certainly a great system but one of its major flaws might be that really good advice and ideas often don’t get the publicity they deserve until someone finds a way to make a profit out of them. It is also because human trust more what appear to be more valued in money compared to homemade solutions... All my device controls did not cost me anything and my audio system is one of the best in the Ratio S.Q/ price... Not the best in absolute term for sure, read me correctly.... I dont like being accused of boasting about my gear like many here... I vouch for the controls devices ,but especially about the method, working in the three embeddings dimensions for ANY audio system: mechanical, electrical and especially acoustical.... |
Actually, there is a commercial solution called swing bases by Swiss loudspeaker manufacturer Sven Boenicke, however it comes at a price.
Very innovative.... i did not see any price tough.... ? I must say that my dissymetrically compressed 2 sets of springs under two different load for each speaker give me some of these system flexibility at 100 bucks.... Then i will stick with it.... |
A SIMPLE EXPERIMENT DESIGNED TO AWAKE ACOUSTIC CONSCIOUSNESS
This experiment will not necessarily increase the quality of your audio experience or decrease it....The positive or negative impact is imprevisible for me because it is relative to your particular gear interaction with your room/ears....
This experiment will be audible with NO work to implement it...This is the reason why i propose it, there is NOTHING to do....
This is very simple and only suggested to you to make you listen what is the power of a single object can have on sound quality in a small room...
Take a big cylinder of any materials, 3 inches diameter and at least 2 feet high.... Put it at the reflection point to your right or left near the wall and listen...
This is only a primitive Helmholtz resonator without a neck....
This will give you an "idea" of how powerful and precise a mechanical equalizer could be when it is fine tuned...
Report the result....
And remark that all my results are gained with no money investment or very low one...
My goal is : audiophile experience at no cost with basic common sense and listenings experiments....
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It seems that to place a tube of any kind and any lenght in a room to try a simple experiment in acoustic, the simplest possible experiment is too hard for most !
Or nobody read this thread....
The second alternative is probable....
😊 |
AN IMPORTANT FACT ABOUT HELMHOLTZ RESONATORS USED AS DIFFUSERS
The underestimated fact of their powerful capacity as sound diffusion engine...
I used them like resonators to damp and enhance some frequencies.... With mechanically tunable straws of different diameter and lenghts as necks...
But i used them also not only as tubes and pipes resonators but as DIFFUSERs with 2 big empty glass water bottles of 50 liters with larger hole for the neck ( few inches) and this hole topped with 2 or 3 cardboard large tubes neck covered with thin fabric clothes and with some plastic surfaces punched with many small holes over it ....
The result is stupendous in my 2 listening position... They are very powerful diffusers.... And diffusion is very important to control in the right balance with absorbtion and reflection....
Cost: peanuts....
Here are some of the acoustical science facts i used:
«Change the volume of the air cavity, or the length or diameter of the neck, and the frequency of
resonance changes. The width of this absorption band depends on the friction of the system. A glass
bottle offers little friction to the vibrating air and would have a very narrow absorption band. Adding
a bit of gauze across the mouth of the bottle or stuffing a wisp of cotton into the neck, the amplitude of
vibration is reduced and the width of the absorption band is increased. For maximum effectiveness,
Helmholtz absorbers should be placed in areas of high modal sound pressure for the tuned frequency...
The sound impinging on a Helmholtz resonator that is not absorbed is reradiated. As the sound is
reradiated from the resonator opening, it tends to be radiated in a hemisphere. This means that unabsorbed energy is diffused, and diffusion of sound is very desirable in a studio or listening room...»
P.214 Master handbook of acoustics by Everest, Frederick Alton Pohlmann, Ken C. |
Save for the difference active acoustic controls could make with a grid of Helmholtz resonators, located in a specific way and tuned in a specific way for the speakers/room versus the necessary and usual passive material treatment ...
Save for that, my greatest discovery in acoustic is, in the 2 cases, passive material treatment and active controls, the ratio between diffusion and absorption.... This is the KEY....Then to my 40 Helmholtz resonatorsgrid, ( my mechanical equalizer) i added 6 Helmholtz diffusers in the last 2 months...
This ratio of absorption/diffusion, with the rightful use of timing and reverberation time, is the more important cause of my actual very high S.Q. for the price paid....
The cause is NOT primarily my successful choices of electronical gear as good they were well chosen....It is the opposite experience which is all over the audio threads where miracles comes always or mostly from costly upgrades of electronical pieces...
Acoustic is the sleeping princess, all electronical pieces are only the 7 working dwarves.... |
When a speakers-room system sound on par with details and with a better imaging and soundstaging than your best headphones, the goal is in sight... This is my experience.... My system compared to almost all system photos here look like shit, but at his ridiculous price does not sound like shit at all... Then we must experiment by ourself before buying... |
