Due to financial position currently, I can't purchase what I want, so to fill the short term need ... I need a multi channel solution below a $4000 threshold. My speakers demand plenty of high quality power to perform at their best, so I am looking to fill that void that was once filled with high end 2 ch separates. If anyone could comment on their own experiences with any of the below solutions I would appreciate it.
Looking for anyone to comment or suggest on their experience they addressed themselves or have helped others reach a well thought out conclusion on same topic. I am looking for a best quality AVR or separate solution. Not necessarily one with the most features. Budget is $2k-4k
Looking for suggestions from those that have had experience with high quality AVRs or midfi AV separates. Entertaining the following products / companies, not in any particular order.
Considering the following AVRs
NAD t777v3 - great sound has Dirac, but unclear if replacement is coming shortly Arcam -- buggy and unreliable track record but great sound Cambridge cx200 - no RC to speak of other than REW 3rd party Lexicon RV9 - unproven track record since Harman acquired them. Rotel RMB1580 - expensive Anthem MRX720 - rumor has it that ARC is 2nd to Dirac.
Not considering any other AVRs as a powered solution. But, I am considering a possible use of denon or marantz avr as a preamp as a midfi separates setup, but not sure how the sound quality would compare to the above AVRs.
1. Outlaw 976 with 5-7ch amp ( ati, monoprice, outlaw, rotel or other midfi amp) 2. Midfi AVR such as ( denon 6x00 or Marantz701x ) with separate amplifiers
My biggest stumbling block in the decision process is whether or not the Outlaw 976 will be 'better' than any of the listed solutions on the preamp and processing end of things. And I am hesitant to jump on board with the Outlaw 976, due to major omissions ( no upgrade path, no network or usb connections ). And the tech support is questionable. But if it sounds hands above the rest, I would gladly consider it.
Looking forward to hearing what others can suggest.
current components:
b&w cdm9nt with matching center ch Kimber Kable 8tc Kimber Kable ICs
I have tried several different HT Processors and also tried room correction. I had a Theta processor that did Dirac room correction. No matter what I did, the Dirac was very intrusive to the sound and did funny things to the phasing - it was like the sound was at my head/ears (like headphones) instead of far out in front of me. The sound also became too smooth and it removed the micro details/textures. For bass, Dirac over equalized the spots where I had bass nulls and caused the drivers to peak out. I also did a Yamaha YPAO calibration in another theater and it just sounded better and more natural with YPAO turned off. I have found that you get better sound in the end if you just do acoustic room treatments instead of using room correction/EQ. I am probably an exception to this, as many others here say that room correction is great. ---- I don’t know about the "Marantz not like they were 20 years ago". I have been following what Marantz has been doing for many years. They made a big jump since they upgraded/modified their original HDAM circuit years ago. This started with the AV7702 and AV8802 processors (the AV8801 had the older/slower circuit). They have excellent power supply design and, of course, a fully discrete analog output stage. I recently had a friend bring a brand new AV8805 processor to test my in system. We all were very impressed for a processor at the $4500 level. It had excellent sound quality and impact/fullness of sound, but it does have a slightly warm character (slightly rolled off highs) - which is why I said that this Marantz should be upgraded with silver fuse and/or silver power cord. --- I have owned several different Emotiva amps over the years. Emotiva is a very good amplifier "for the money". Just like the Monoprice Monolith. We had a discussion on this in another forum - the Emotiva may be more refined than Monoprice, but the current generation Emotiva uses a switching power supply (Gen 3) and does not have quite as much bass authority as the Monoprice. The older Emotiva amps with their huge transformer and power supplies would probably do better. However, these amps are not better than stuff like Rotel, NAD, Parasound etc. ---- Oh , out of those amps, probably the Rotel would be best. Then Emotiva/Monoprice
If you can, try to audition the new Parasound A52 plus, It's within your budget. It is 5 channels at 180 watts per channel and sounds great. I just purchased one about 2 months ago for my HT to power my KEFS R700, R600C & R300. I was using my NAD 758 which was okay but, having a separate amp is, IMO the way to go. This amp is getting very good reviews. Good luck with your search.
If you would - can you explain why the fuse upgrade causes an audible improvement? Would this work with any other AVR or preamp - or Marantz specifically?
Thank you for your recommendations. I will revisit the Marantz 770x option again. Not meaning to drive this thing in circles. So, I appreciate your input. If you would like you can expand on why you are not a fan of room correction. Curious. I am under the impression RC when executed well - can have a positive effect.
I am still unsure if I am on board with the room correction band wagon as it were. I read daily that it is the one thing that can improve performance in an otherwise lousy space. Within reason. Although I have no real world experience to justify my thought process. My room is far from ideal, and speaker placement is not ideal so optimizing where possible was my thought process.
I was hesitant to go the Marantz route because I had heard from more than one source that the Marantz of 20 years ago is long gone, and since being bought out - Marantz along with Denon have sacrificed quality of sound for features that detract from it.
Do you think Emotiva surpasses the likes of : Outlaw, ATI, Monoprice ( rebadged ATI ), Rotel, Music Fidelity, or even NAD? Do you think any of these amps would be complimentary to the CDM9NTs that I have? My other surrounds are Sonance inwalls. Nothing to write home about, so driving them with a high priced amp is not mandatory.
Thanks again for your time. Appreciate gaining perspective from those that know more than myself.
If you are going the receiver plus amp route, the higher end Marantz may be a choice, but only if you do a fuse/powercord upgrade. Otherwise, the Anthem MRX receivers are about the highest resolution receivers for sound quality. Then find a very high resolution 2-channel amp. ---- If you get a stock Marantz receiver or HT processor and do not do a fuse or power cord upgrade, then a super fast Bryston amp could be a very good match to the "warm" sounding Marantz.
Okay, I'm doing an approach based on your budget as well as my own preference. I am not one who likes room correction systems, so my approach is fully based on sound quality alone. First, I would look at picking up a Marantz AV7703 or AV7704 HT processor. These are just the recent generations. They will only be less then a couple years old and they will also support 4K and many of the newer features. The reason I recommend this is that the Marantz processors (as well as the upper end receivers), are the only items at this price level that have fully discrete analog output circuits (instead of op amps like everybody else). They are excellent sound quality, but are on the warm sounding side, so I would also recommend upgrading the internal fuse to something like Hi-Fi Tuning "Supreme" or "Silverstar" fuses. These are silver fuses and will increase the high frequency resolution. You may also find that you need to upgrade the power cord to have something like silver-plated plug/IEC connectors or even silver plated copper wiring (I generally don't advise silver, but in this case I think you will need it). The AV7703 and AV7704 can be easily found on ebay between the $700 and $1200 range.
-- This leaves a great portion of your budget for amplification. The B&W really need a high resolution amp with lots of current. There is a Krell S-1500 on audiogon for $2800 that would be an excellent candidate. There is a Classe Sigma Amp5 for $3000 that could be another good choice. I would avoid warm sounding amps like McIntosh, Adcom, B&K, Acurus, etc. If you can find a used Emotiva XPR-5 or even XPA-5, those would work great.
I would prefer to 'wait' to upgrade but I have failing equipment and need to insert a solution that I can live with for possibly the long term. I realize I may be in the minority - since I don't upgrade or change equipment every few years. Hope I am still accepted into this group.
Waiting for the budget to grow would not be feasible at the moment. And I am not sure the WAF would approve any considerable increase in the budget.
As far as I know the next step up in sonic improvement from a $2-$4k budget is ... $6k-10k just for pre pro... I am not sure there is anything in between -- unless I am missing something and that just isn't going to happen unless our financial position changes dramatically.
So, any other comments or suggestions are welcomed.
1. Short answer. No. But being that the equipment is not in its own dedicated space ( great room w/kitchen ) I was under the impression some RC would be beneficial. And as I understand it -- ARC and Dirac are far superior to AudXT.
2. Yes audio circuit would be important, but I know that finances dictate compromises.
3. Upgradability is a perk, but not sure its a necessity. From what I have researched, upgrading via MDC is somewhat cost prohibitive if you factor in the actual cost of a ' latest and greatest ' AVR vs cost of the module being replaced. Depending on what the state of AVRs are in would dictate that move.
4. I would consider used given the right circumstance. But I do want/need current hdmi specs as well as 4k passthrough. Atmos is not a requirement. WAF dictates number of speakers. On the amp side, as long as the amp is in good working order - I am all for saving money by purchasing used gear.
----
Full disclosure. I have been out of the AV scene a very long time; although I have tried to keep up on the knowledge end of things by reading what I can. But, with multiple shops closing that I once visited I have not been able to audition gear. My focus as of late had been raising kids and life got in the way of my once great appreciation for all things audio. Sorry didn't mean to derail the topic. Carrying on...
The crux of this is that I am trying to solve my failing equipment issue, and I am unable to ' wait ' for the budget to grow or get more funding approval from the wife :). Comprise will have to be just that... compromise. But I want to at least position myself with decent AV gear.
I am open to any suggestions.
Can you comment on whether or not the preamp side of NAD, Arcam, Cambridge, Anthem is ' better ' than that of Marantz or Denon -- if I choose to use the AVR as a preamp only? What about a dedicated preamp such as the Marantz 770x or Outlaw 976? Are either of these going to be a 'better' choice vs one of the above AVRs positioned as just a pre/pro? Putting aside room correction choices for the moment.
My suggestion is, save for what you really want. If you spend $4000.00 on something you don't really want, you will have to start saving all over again.That's a lot of money and you will only get a fraction of it back by reselling. Just my two cents worth of opinion.
So, I have a few questions for you before I start down a specific direction: 1. Is the type/quality of room correction, such as Dirac or ARC, a required item?
2. Is the quality of the analog audio circuit important?
3. Is upgradability an important factor? (if so, then NAD is really the only option within your budget).
4. Would you consider buying used? Or do you want only new equipment?
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