Micro Seiki, or TW AC-1

Maril555,

besides of following a church-approach if DD or BD is better or even Idler-Drive I may recommend the MS.
I have all drives and tested them very intensively. While the DD has some advantages a real Top Class Performance you reach with a well equipped big Micro-Seiki (BD) or an EMT 927 (Idler Drive). While the latter is very rare a fine MS-5000 is reachable. So why going for a new design rather than the masters of performance. Pls. forget the remarks some guys made on Mass-Turntables. I guess our friends have no even an idea what kind of performance these TTs are able to show in a good setting.

good hint Pani - excellent machine!

www.audio16.com

Dear Raul,
my Micro Seikis SX 8000 II and the 8000 II have no problem with speed. Allnic and Timeline (red laser) stay still on the spot. Speed Stability is possible with these designs. You need to work with them. Maybe you did not in your Mexican Group. If you want sugestions you know my e-mail address.

Dear Pcosta,
i hope you are not pleading for a "stay happy with what you have status". But do understand and accept if you a not engaging in a controversial debate. In my case I could then stay at home and forget exchanging ideas.
Regarding the Micro Seiki supply line there are many dealers in Japan, Hongkong, on platforms - but the problem is these units are sometimes expensive because they are rare and well designed and of an excellent built quality. It is more comfortable to call a dealer asking for the latest design on new turntables around the corner... Everyone may decide what he is aiming at regarding musicality and technical satisfaction. We must accept that not everyone among us is looking for the best solution rather than the most accepted and well marketed product. Why not? Seriously!

Pcosta,
I never made any negative remarks about the TW designs. I know Thomas Woschnik from the very first beginning he started with his first tables in Germany and I also followed the successful landing in the US market by the activity of Joe Catalano. I think it is a great job they have done. They built up a remarkable business building upon some of the features of MS. What I don't get is the condemning of the technology of the big Micro Seikis by some of the followers. Some even never heard a big MS table and e.g. what Raul describes about his understanding of the "poor technology" of the MS tables makes me wonder if the Mexican Group really owns a good sample.

Glai, I experimented with flywheel arrangements. By doing so I realized that the motor management is very important and needs a precise steering. I found it in the VPI SDS. I use the MS Motor (SX 8000 II) and the HS-80 ( 8000 II) in combination to control the vector forces. From my opinion whether one uses a TW or MS he should look for good and precise motors and an exact and stable motor management. I would not go for a three motor design.

Regarding the quality of MS tables I have seen big differences on the markets, in Japan, Germany, France and the US. It depends on age, care and usage. the best samples I have seen in Japan.

Maril 555,
for a good MS you don't need a new platter. Regarding extensions on both tables, MS and TW you need to work with (if you like), building up a nice solution and having fun and improvements by bringing in modifications. The other option is a plug & play solution which both tables do not offer.

regarding isolation platforms: it is a must. I would also go for separate platforms for the motor(s) and the table. If you do this there are no vibrations on original MS brass arm bases.

Albert , I did many times, but I will keep these personal discussions with me.
Halcro, Agree - you can make the TW sound very good.

Lotus340r, absolutely true what you are saying. Of course it is a different issue for the beginner, the mid term fidelty guy or the one who already has arrived in heaven. the first group is just feeling a bit unsecure dealing with all the different opinions & special advises ending up usally in dealer or brand oriented hands. The later species you can differentiate in the ones not doing anything at their system since 10-15 years or longer and the specialists finding & working on tiny improvement issues. Both are usally engaging more on platforms than listening to their music. How should it work listening to music when your sitting 8 hours the day in front of your computer and serving 5-8 audio platforms and maybe 40-80 threads (extreme!).

Anyhow the mid term fidelity guy might be the happiest man as he is not really political, not running a church approach and only sometimes relying on brand authority. All enjoy the insight into sometimes complex topics. It's good that we have all groups and without our 'platform-guys' we would not have that kind of exchange.

In a world full of business interests we will be not able retreating only to theoretical exchanges. It is also about products, here about Micro Seikis and TW Acoustic. The MS-problem is that they are no longer in production (comparable to EMT and others). But there is a community loving these units and some are trying to improve and sell. In the case of TW there is a company and sales forces behind it trying to raise interest in the products and there is also a community of afficinados. If I would run an audio company I would be interested in good reviews, good consumer base and good feedback. Nothing bad about this.

You are right the problem is people do not listen to the units in their own chains rather relying on 2nd or 3rd hand opinions, which is okay for getting a basic opinion. Maybe we have changed over the years, too. 20 years ago we would not have invested 20k or more into one turntable without having compared it with the contenders. Hopefully this thread helps also to motivate folks doing (!) the listening and find out what is best for them.

Looks really good Lotus340r. Next step could be a second motor for the TW table. You will hear it!