Micro Seiki, or TW AC-1

Hi Maril555,
When I set out to buy a TT about 10 months back, I auditioned a long list of TTs and that includes the TW Raven One, Raven AC, Microseiki RX8000, RX8000 MK2, SME 30, Avid Acutus, Brinkmann Bardo and quite a few more. Among them also was a Platine Verdier. Initially I was quite disappointed after listening to many TTs because a lot of them didnt do much to me even though I was buying my first TT and expected to be blown away after all these years with digital. In the past whenever I have listened to TT it was on one of those vintage DDs and I always liked the analog presentation to even the best digital I had heard. So, considering that now I am ready to invest upto $10k it was natural that I thought I will be blown with every audition. But that did not happen, rather I was shocked just how many of these expensive "well engineered" TTs screw up the sound. Few of them clearly sounded like CD!! Anyway, among the tables that we are discussing here:

1. Micro Seiki - I have not heard the RX-5000, while the RX-8000 sounded nice, it had the natural flow we associate with analog music reproduction, the resolution we look for in high end analog with a solid foundation.

2. TW Acustics: It has all the ingredients that we associate with "high-end" sound and I can understand why so many people like it. Tons of details, resolution, very huge and stable soundstage, a touch of warmth, overall balanced sound. BUT, to me it had an artificiality/coloration in the flow of music. The notes did not naturally bloom, hold and decay the way we know it should. There is a "rush", a little too much leading edge and not enough time to bloom. There was also a colouration in the timbre of the instruments as if to artificially make it sound "rich". Basically it felt like I am hearing something cooked.

3. Platine Verdier: Finally the sound that I had imagined a high end analogue player would have! The Verdier had the best rendition of tone and timbre among all the players I had heard. It also had the best flow, something very continuous and liquid I havent heard in any other TT. Couple that with a full frequency spectrum music and incredibly 3-dimensional soundstage. It was one of the most natural music reproduction I heard that day. There was nothing cooked. I normally dont give a lot of importance to soundstage tricks but what caught within the soundstage of a Verdier is the fact that every individual instrument sounded 3 dimensional, full blown and proper. It was just too good to pass but it was too expensive for my wallet. So, I bought the Nouvelle Platine Verdier, the Auditorium 23 revision which is suppose to be at the same level as the big Platine.

The other TTs I liked were the Avid Acutus, SME 30 and EMT 938.

I heard the TW Raven One and AC on four different arms and carts. All in the same system and at the same time. My impressions about the TT did not change. Some things are too foundational and if it comes through, you know it is the TT. The same room also had a Dr.feickert woodpecker and Nottingham Analogue hyperspace, I also auditioned them and they did not exhibit the issues I noted with TW. Of course they lacked behind the TW in some other ways. It was just an observation. For me it was relevant enough to pass the TW even though I was getting an amazing deal.

Someone has asked for a suggestion out here because he wants
to put his hard earned money into it, just like I did few
months ago. That is the reason I wrote as honestly as I
could what I heard with "reasonable" conviction.

However, it is interesting that more people out here want to
tell me I was wrong because of XYZ reasons. If one cannot
hear a TT's contribution in a chain of TT-Tonearm-Cartridge-
phonostage then I suppose there is no reason for audiophiles
to ever go for a TT demo, neither should dealers have any
demo room for TTs! I am not saying it is as simple as
auditioning a pair of speakers. But if one spends enough
time in the demo room and that too comparing three different
TTs and multiple tonearms, it is not all that difficult to
point out the characteristics which are glaring in a TT.

I commented strongly about the TW because it was one of the
serious contenders in my shortlist, I took multiple
auditions of it through multiple chain of electronics just
to ensure the validity of my concerns and it so happened
that the character that bothered me was too strong and
present. Even simple Norah Jones track sounded zippy. I even
took my AKG headphone setup to the dealer to clarify this.

In hifi equipment selection, isnt it as necessary to figure
out the compromises one could live with as it is to know the
strengths ? I am more concerned about construction and flow
of notes while someone else would bother about soundstage
construction or frequency extension. Why is it so difficult
to believe that TW had its own share of weaknesses which
occurred to me because I am more sensitive to it ?

Regarding Nottingham TTs, I did not say anything about it
because it is not a TT under discussion. It had other issues
due to which I did not buy it either but it did not exhibit
the problems I noted with TW. TW's problem was quite unique,
that is why I mentioned it the term "cooked".

If you are open to Idler drive then you could also consider the EMT 930. It is well within a reachable budget and can be had with warranty from one of the ex-EMT engineers here:
www.EMT-Profi.de

Pani, as a matter of clarification:
You said: "There is a "rush", a little too
much leading edge and not enough time to bloom. There was
also a colouration in the timbre of the instruments as if to
artificially make it sound "rich". Basically it
felt like I am hearing something cooked."
And then you also say: "Even simple Norah Jones track
sounded zippy. I even
took my AKG headphone setup to the dealer to clarify
this."
From other posters I kind of had an impression, that TW is
somewhat dark and warm sounding TT, but you obviously heard
coloration, that is usually associated with bright sounding
components.
I read in some older TW posts, that "naked" TW
platter does indeed emphasizes the leading edge, and using
mat could alleviate it.
Could you extrapolate on this issue, please?

Maril555, it is good to know that you have auditioned the TW
already and not exactly going to buy purely based on the
outcome of this debate:).

Regarding your question whether TW sounds coloured as in
bright, the answer is NO. It is not a bright TT at all. As
you said it is rather somewhat dark but not overtly.
Colouration can be on either side of the spectrum. The
timbre colouration was towards the richer-darker side. But
more than tonal colouration (which is there in many hifi
products), it is about the construction of the music note.
It feels that there is less time for the note to get
properly constructed, so before you could enjoy the note, it
has passed.

Secondly, I said it sounds "cooked". Think about
it, what does a chef do when he has messed up a recipe he
was cooking, he tries to manipulate by adding other
ingredients so that the flaws in the taste becomes less
prominent or gets diverted. To me, the TW sounded something
like that. First there was too much leading edge, to
compensate that there was some warmth "added", but
the warmth should not eat into the highs so the body was cut
short so there is less bloom and so on and so forth. In the
end a dose of richness was added so that all this together
feels tasty. It is somewhat like telling one lie to hide
another. This is not natural sound to my ears. I would not
have bothered so much if it was digital playback, because in
digital there is always some cooking up. But if analogue
playback is manipulated this way then the purpose of
listening directly from the record groove is lost.

Thanks Opus for taking my comments in the right spirit.