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Mft 's suggested VTF: Follow or not to follow???

Dear all,
I would like to seek your advice on this issue: Should we or should we not always follow the manufacturer's suggested VTF???

I've been dealing with female vocal's sibilance since like forever and NOTHING seems to help totally eliminate the phenomenon of sibilance pulls to the left channel !!! I have read numorous posts and try them all without achieving the level of satisfaction i expect.

I ran though this problem with an Avid Acutus-Origin Live Conqueror tonearm - Koetsu Urushi, SME 20/2 - SME VI.Vi - Lyra Helikon - Project Perspective - Sumiko Blackbird on discs like Holly Cole " Dont Smoke In Bed", Diana Krall " From this moment on"...(All of them are Classic Records). Using Feikert Protractor AND Wally's universal tractors (have settings for most of popular arms), I can achieve rock solid imaging, huge soundstage and make the speakers totally disappear with LP playing, EXCEPT making that siblance disappear ! With other discs like Classical, Jazz, 60s-70s-80s-90s pop/rock, I DO NOT detect (or extremely rare) distortion/mistracking. ONLY Female vocals, especially discs from Classic Records.

I'm very careful and patient in setting up turntables, also played around with VTF, VTA, Azimuth...etc..etc but i cannot get rid of that annoying sibliance. On some discs, that pull-to-left-channel never seems to happen, but it always happens to some degree in Classic Records' female vocals. Until now, i'm so frustrated I dont know which to assump: my setup or those discs??? Would greatly appreciate if someone can point me to some directions.

(I have the tendency to refuse in believing that Classic Record's mastering-cutting head is cutting these bad sibilance in discs like this..hm..)

now, a question also emerges during my LONG setting-up sessions:
ALL of the cartridges-arms-tables combo that i have tried (listed above)only pass 2nd track and NEVER get passed the 3rd Anti-skating track on Hi Fi+ Test record (the 300hz, 14dB). With all other parameters (VTA, VTF, Alignment, Azimuth..) carefully checked, IF i use more VTF (up to 2.1-2.2gr for Lyra Helikon, 2.3-2.4gr. for Blackbird), the cartridges tracks a bit better.

So..Should i use the VTF which helps the catridges track better or just stick with what the manufacturer suggested VTF and forget about the HiFi+ test record? My concern is that those sibilances are mistrakings, and that will ruin my records ( i care more about records than cartridges !!)

PS. Even with the cartridges tracking better, the sibilance issue doesnt improve much.
Thanks in advance.
jaytea

Showing 3 responses by dougdeacon

dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Many of Classic Records classical music reissues have pushed HF's. This can make female vocals, violins, etc. sound edgy. Perhaps their jazz/pop vocal issues are similar.

Try the "hand play" test on a few suspect passages. Play them with the TT motor OFF, spinning the platter verrrrry slowwwwwwwly by hand, say 5 rpm or less. The music will all be a LF growl. Any pressing flaws will be sharper, crisper and easily identified.

Your "sound pulling to the left" sounds like a case of too much antiskating. In order to set this accurately (by ear) it's necessary to set VTF first (also by ear). To set VTF, start with antiskating at zero. Reduce VTF in small (.05g or less) increments until you hear audible mistracking (fuzz or buzzing) on dynamic peaks. Now bump VTF back up just enough until this just barely goes away and tough passages play cleanly.

Now listen for R channel mistracking only. Increase antiskating in tiny increments just enough to eliminate this. Any more is excessive.

Finally, stop worrying about the HFN&RR antiskating tracks. They bear little relation to real music and are certainly NOT "tests" that have to be "passed". This common misconception has resulted in hundreds, if not thousands, of poorly set up rigs. Most rigs that "pass" track 8 (or 9?!) are set up with excess VTF and/or excess antiskating. That won't be optimal for real music. The best way to use those tracks is to ignore them.

dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
The thing is that i need a guideline, a startpoint in order to choose the right anti-skating for my turntable-arm-cartridge setup.
I gave you that. The right startpoint is ZERO antiskate.

Given that different cartridge's stylus profiles, different types of vinyl require different amount of anti-skating force, i think that using a real-life playing condition (test record) to set anti-skating might be better/more correctly than the general, theoretical method which set anti-skating force relatively to just tracking force.
Fully agree, with one correction. Your tonearm manufacturer has no idea what cartridge you're using or what record you're playing. So setting to some theoretical number is just that, theoretical.

But as I pointed out above, the HFN&RR "test" record is NOT a "real-life playing condition". Its frequency mix is not music, its so-called antiskate tracks are all on inner grooves and, most important, its amplitudes are WILDLY unrealistic.

Throw that record away. Learn to trust your ears while listening to what you bought all this gear for.

Doug

P.S. Everything you say keeps pointing to one thing, lousy LP's. I tend to agree with Jaybo and Audiofeil.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Aha! Glad to hear you found a way to eliminate (or at least reduce) the problem.

I don't think your improvement is particularly because the SME is designed for Baerwald. It's because Baerwald results in lower overall tracking distortion than most other schemes, on any pivoting arm.

I've always preferred Baerwald, even on arms designed for something else, like Rega's. (Using Baerwald with a Rega usually requires a table with a moveable armboard, but that's another story).

Enjoy
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