stalwar, look for used cardas golden presence and audience au24e.
bobby |
but what of the focus, layering and overall natural quality?
bobby |
traces can grow legs in higher humidity and on circuit boards it may cause a short.
not a problem in my speakers, no boards. in the bam none have ever been seen. it has a lot to do with the solder used and the way the bard is coated after production.
b |
9rw, you never surprize me. you have not listened to any of the latest vsms yet you comment. all from the se you owned at least 12 years ago. wow, you are good! if quad, soundlabs, roland, avalon, joseph audio, ayre, running springs, merlin and even joule use it at shows or internally and many others use it or wire their products with it, i would say your comment has little fact in it. i would also suggest you take a really close listen to the clear. my comment above stands with the addition of, imho.
best, b |
j, cable performance and sound quality is relative to the speakers and system used. therefore your present cables and their thin sound complemented the vr but does not the merlin. the fuller, muddy and slow sound as you call it, will be better suited to the merlin. get some to try first and by all means, be open minded because a great revelation may be at hand. and by the way, cardas sounds nothing like what you decribed. what is that telling you?
best, b |
marty, i agree with all you have said, there is no problem between us.
what i find equally as foolish is when someone hears cardas on merlin speakers, does not like the sound for one reason or another and says "that is bobby's fav and i do not like the sound so both the speaker and wire are not to my liking." then they do not give either a chance with other gear, how foolish is that? that is the other side of the coin and happens often.
once again, nothing suits everyone's needs/preferences and we should be big enough to understand this. owning audio gear is not a contact sport and what we own is not the best because we own it.
best, b |
9rw, you are again talking about products that were made 12 to 13 years ago, are out of production and have no bearing on what we are talking about. juancgenao asked about vsm mmes which you have never even heard and your se's sounded nothing like. since you have nothing relevant to add because your comments are based on dated assumption, why even get involved or do you just want to disrupt.
i think we should all just ignore you from this day forward.
best, b |
cold forging will take away the warmth in the cardas.
especially the newer versions. au24e is a significant improvment over the 24.
b |
stingreen, sounds like the cardas cables were either not broken in or a bad combination with your speakers, which are? i have a feeling i know what is going on. in fact i would bet you on the outcome.
bhoage, i like the stealth cables too. finely stranded silver works very well. much better than bigger strands or solid core on merlins. i personally like copper litz a little more. personal preference is what this is all about in the end.
marty, i have said what "i like personally" on the speakers and why. i like cable that can play a lot of music well and not ones that play a few pieces incredibly at the expense of the rest. i never said that cardas or audience was the only cable to use. this is someone's interpretation of these recommendations.
lots of great and fair comments here.
except for the one who got involved for no reason other than to disrupt or to make himself feel superior.
in closing, there is not one product that we can all agree on being the best. too many variables in systems, personal taste, room acounstics etc. it is always best to experiment to come up with your own perceptions.
i actually have a great many personal favorites in the way of ancillaries to use with my speakers.
best, b |
t, the cold forged gr is quite a bit clearer and more balanced but the clear still sounds clearer, fuller and more life like. more continuous too but if you do not have the $, this is the way to go.
one is fantastic and the other exceptional.
i think the improvement is profound in a good system.
b |
no they are soldered with lead free tri eutectic i believe.
b |
rleff, this amp looks very interesting to me. i love el34s and class "a" ops, even more so. unless the damping is too high or there is a lot of feedback it should be a fantastic piece. it should be very natural sounding with good bass punch and control, imho.
logically it will have a slightly low output impedance (because of the 3 pairs of 34's) which causes a slightly high damping potential. but the proof in in the listening. all in all i like what i see.
i have heard of none of my customers with it so i do not have an idea of what people are using for cables.
sorry.
best, b |
rleff, newer merlins sound a lot more robust in my opinon. the mmi and mx-r sound great with ss or tubes. but the vsm mx-r with a master bam and master rcs will be a fantastic match with your cables. not to worry.
the transparent sounds a hair damped and a hair forward because it sits on the fence so you can use it easily with damped or lesser damped speakers systems. with the master bam and master rc's more robust sound, it is a great fit.
best, b |
robbob, isn't it great being talked down to by a guy who hasn't got a clue because he hasn't listened to anything current. who thinks measurments say everything and has many important facts, wrong? he resurfaces with the same nonsense every so often and i have tried many times to explain things to him which is very tiresome, wastes time and energy. so...i have stopped.
as i said, ignore him. he is prolonging this.
best, b |
paul, i knew john and he was not a cable guy that is for sure. i said it then and i'll say it now, "each to his own". :-)
how is the master bam and the master rc's?
should be settled by now.
b |
i was wrong stingreen in two respects, with the breakin and about your speakers. vandy's imho, are going to be aided by the purist or a cable that slightly constricts, so i see why you liked what you had. the ayre/cardas was too full and relaxed to interface properly. this thinning or lightness would make the 5a's sound quicker and more finessed. this doesn't make the ayre/cardas wrong, just inappropriate for you and your speaker. there are plenty of speakers that these wires sound better on than other types. this is not one size fits all.
and in general, speakers with tweeters that are crossed over lower tend to like these litz wires more than ones that are crossed over higher. this has to do with the amount of fullness in the treble itself.
thanks s,
best, b |
stalwar, i have compared both myself. the au24e sounds like it has a wider bandwidth and more relaxed presence range. i like it more. the au24 is more present and not as extended in the extremes. the 24 sounds better on older merlins and the 24e on newer versions.
jmtc.
bobby |
robbob, of the three you mentioned anti may be your preference.
try and stay with copper bundled into a large gauge of about 9. be sure the strands are tiny. what we are trying to do is to maintain a 6 gauge difference between the jumpers which are 15 and speaker wire.
ok?
:-)
b |
alot of great and appreciated posts again.
robbob, turboglo, samac and tab110s thank you all.
b |
art, agreed and a perfect way to decribe it.
b@m |
m and j, the wire "you" prefer with "your" vsm speakers will reflect the version of the vsm used, the set up, the room, the associated electronics and "your" personal taste. when i make a recommendation it reflects my choice in regards to the above and the speakers ability to properly play a very high percentage of my music collection. this is not an absolute for everyone.
:-)
i am glad you are so happy and that the wire change you made showed you the potential of the speakers.
thank you.
best regards, bobby |
m, how old is your fila amp?
what is the serial number?
if it is an older one and has lead in it, that would explain why you like the silver cables in one spot.
as i said, it has a lot to do with the equipment and set up used. and your mme's are softer sounding than the mxe or mx-r. so that would be another reason you "may" like the silver cable more in one spot.
best, b |
stingreen, your thoughts prove my point.
audioquest is recommended for vandies and anti's have a similar way about them. no wonder you liked them too.
i would not recommend cardas for a vandy system no matter what electronics were being used.
always use the right tool for the right job.
b |
s, golden cross is a softer sounding cable that is recommended for ss or brighter speakers. the vsm se was designed with se triodes and in certain systems could be a little bright and lean. the golden cross had a nice synergy with the early vsm. later vsms were designed with transformer coupled valve amps, otls and ss so they sound a lot fuller, clearer, smoother and expansive. imho, they have really come into there own. now they work extremely well with golden presence, golden ref and are the best with the new cardas clear.
i used golden ref and now the clear to design all of my speakers.
nice to hear from you. :-)
best, b |
your comments pertain to this system only. i hope you realize this. and you and your tastes.
how old were the gr's and are they the real mcoy?
were the golden ref's cold forged?
bobby p |
were they cold forged?
if you ever get the master bam and master rc mod which is talked to you about (which you should have done before the wire shootout) the end result may have been different. the masters add gobs of body, clearity and expanse. then you would have had a better idea of which cable is the most neutral.
also remember no wire fits everyones taste and that the mme is somewhat detuned from the mxe, mx-r and master vsm. my recs are meant more in concert with these models.
but have fun.
bobby p |
s, in large rooms relaxing the mids will give you a sonic character of wider bandwidth and in smaller rooms the more continuous sounding cable sounds best to my ears because of the additional boundary reinforcements. this whole discussion is relative to the volume and reinforcement modes of different sized rooms. one cable will not make everyone happy.
b |
c, without the bam you are listening to more im distortion and dynamic compression. what you hear is probably the sound of aluminum foils caps pushing the presence range. and yes with the master mods that will be gone. the sound will be more room filling, clearer, purer and more expansive. the new power supply is 50 times quieter too.
what you say may be right to a degree but with the bam in place there is less distortion and a more linear resolved sound. what you have decided on for cables may not be the same or indeed right when the bam is as good as it can be. be careful to pass judgement. i have never heard the positive effects of the bam outweighed by the negative ones and you may be the first in this case.
now all of this makes more sense as i know why you preferred the other cables.
bobby p |
c, 6 moons never reviewed the speakers and only heard them at shows. since se's tend to be lower powered they were concerned about the boost freq and the demands on the amp at the boost plateau. even wavelength posed the same concern. se amps tend to sound rounder and smoother than others so i can see why you may prefer the sound without the bam. it may appear a little more defined, delicate and and less bodied but the additional definition is increased distortion and ringing in the hf. the same thing occurs at the other end of the spectrum. when ever out of band energy is reproduced it appears in the form of im distortion in the usable bandwidth. selecting a superbly recorded coral works will show this quality by smearing the layering and specific nature of the piece. when the bam is used it is profoundly more coherent, less complicated and real sounding.
i am grateful for the wonderful comments that you have made about my work. i am not trying to argue with you but a number of people have felt this way and in the end, changed their minds about the bam. you should reserve judgement knowing that virtually 100% of all the end users much prefer it in the system unless there is some compensating factor specific to their system.
enjoy your system.
bobby p |
