Great comparison of these two excellent preamps. Thanks. As a McIntosh C2300 (not quite c2500) user, this was especially interesting. You mention tube rolling the stock C2500 tubes to Mullards, which makes me wonder if some of the analytical (good analytical) side of the Pass unit might be related to your comparing it to the C2500 with Mullards, which may give a more romantic, less detailed sound. I've been using Gold Lion tubes (not stock) in my C2300 pre, and that's made a nice improvement, although at least to my ears it seems pretty detailed and not overly lush, soft, or warm (which I take to be characteristics opposite from your description of what you like in the Pass XP20).
McIntosh C2500 to Pass Labs XP-20 Comparison
I had posted last week regarding the "house" sounds between these two preamps, as I was looking to swap out to the XP20. I've ran the XP-20 through my listening paces and am posting my impressions.
Setup:
Dynaudio C4 Signatures
REL 528T
Pass Labs XP-20
Nordost QX4 & QB8
PS Audio BHK300 monoblocks
PS Audio Direct Stream Junior & Ayre QB9
DEQX Premate
Shunyata Research Black Mamba power cables
Audioquest Colorado IC's
Audioquest Castle Rock speaker wire
GIK Acoustics room treatment
First and foremost, I should share I was a diehard McIntosh supporter. Like many before me, I became mesmerized by the blue meters as a young kid. Any upgrade I performed was to get into the next piece of McIntosh. The C2500 was no different, I swapped the tubes out for Mullard NOS and it sounded epic. I have not a single negative thing to say about the C2500. It presented well, soundstage was great and produced a pretty organic sound, to me. What I'm sharing below is what I was hearing after I popped the XP-20 into my setup. Hence, I wouldn't say this is a comparison, as it would be an apples to oranges, tube vs. solid state. In addition, I listened to all these without the DEQX engaged. So, no speaker/room correction.
The first album I listen to, whenever I change something out, is Metallica's St. Anger. It's a sonic piece of hot garbage and everyone knows it. If we really think about it though, it's a sonic version of Yamaha's NS10s. Essentially, if the album sounds worse, then I immediately know the previous piece was adding some form of coloration; which would make sense coming from a tube preamp. But, with the XP20, I found myself not able to listen, due to ear fatigue. I did became even more angered at Lars Ulrich...their drummer for those that don't listen to them. Why? Well, the first complaint many had with the recording were the drums. I believe the mic setup was two overhead mics, with super low gate thresholds, 2 kick mics and a snare mic. Now, for those of you that do listen to Metallica, the XP-20 will highlight what many of us have known for quite sometime, Lars Ulrich is a terrible drummer. I've heard them live numerous times over the last 30 years and my only take away was, "jeesh, does this guy ever practice". Live, he's constantly off measure. Just count a simple 4 and you'll begin to hear him veer out of time. But, St. Anger doesn't further highlight his timing, it's the studio, that's an easy fix, but his inability to remain constant with cymbal work and snare precision. The XP-20 highlights this, over and over again. The cymbals come way forward in the mix, further elevating this catastrophe of a recording. Overall, the album lives up to it's presence as a "garage band" recording, as some have put it.
Metallica ...And Justice For All is the second album I listen to. Again, not a great mix. The recording cost them $1M to do, in 1988 this was an astronomical amount for an album. It's the mix, they pulled the bass mix down -6db, it's generally inaudible. I use Blackened to see how soon I'm able to hear the bass. Like the C2500, at 2:50ish is the first time I heard the bass, same with the XP20. The mix is super compressed, sonically, the kick weighs heavy across the left/right pan with the guitars and vocals squished right up the middle. Again, not a great song to bear fruit in attempting to assess the two.
John Mayer, Paradise Valley, Waitin' on the Day. This song has a multitude of layers going on. Notably, there's a B3 Hammond mixing nicely with the slide work. With the C2500, the B3 was audible but didn't really punch through in any passage. The XP-20, it's clear, very, very clear. The B3 is way up in the mix, almost riding with the vocals. I had not been able to locate individual notes with the C2500, it came off as a background drone. The XP-20 really seemed to create a little separation between all the different instruments, allowing me to actually hear individual notes.
Radiohead, OK Computer, Let Down. I'll be a little biased here, I truly believe this song is a modern marvel. The mix is super dispersed, with multiple vocal tracks panned at various levels to the right and left. The guitars, they aren't super localized, but rather layered in the same manner the vocals are...wide and located at various levels on the pans. Immediately, the vocals become more defined, with a definitive left/right. It didn't sound off with the C2500, just not as much separation/isolation with the individual instruments. Specifically, at 4 minutes in, during the crescendo, rather than deflating back into the mix, it's as if the right panned vocal is raised in db a smidgen for effect. Further cementing, my belief, in the brilliance of this song. I had not noticed this prior to the XP-20. I had shuffle selected and it jumped to another Radiohead song, Reckoner, off of In Rainbows. Again, I had never heard it before, but the song kicks off with just the drums. The XP-20 picks up, what sounds like to me, their drummers headphone bleed. You're able to hear the drummer, with a faint trace of the intro guitar. I suspect they did a few measures of it, to avoid playing a click track.
I could continue to bloviate about the virtues of this preamp. I suppose I'll leave this digital entry for future McIntosh owners looking to leave their beloved gear for something else. It's intimidating and a little scary. I, for one, would be hard pressed to re-enter into their world. I like it, it sounds good to me, but the XP-20 sounds better. Maybe it's the solid state vs. tube debate, not sure and I'm not concerned with that debate . What I do know, the XP-20 takes what the C2500 does and moves the needle a couple notches. Nothing astronomical, but enough to warrant a change, for me. The XP20 isn't super verbose in any one area, it just sounds like it does all things, really, really, really well.
Setup:
Dynaudio C4 Signatures
REL 528T
Pass Labs XP-20
Nordost QX4 & QB8
PS Audio BHK300 monoblocks
PS Audio Direct Stream Junior & Ayre QB9
DEQX Premate
Shunyata Research Black Mamba power cables
Audioquest Colorado IC's
Audioquest Castle Rock speaker wire
GIK Acoustics room treatment
First and foremost, I should share I was a diehard McIntosh supporter. Like many before me, I became mesmerized by the blue meters as a young kid. Any upgrade I performed was to get into the next piece of McIntosh. The C2500 was no different, I swapped the tubes out for Mullard NOS and it sounded epic. I have not a single negative thing to say about the C2500. It presented well, soundstage was great and produced a pretty organic sound, to me. What I'm sharing below is what I was hearing after I popped the XP-20 into my setup. Hence, I wouldn't say this is a comparison, as it would be an apples to oranges, tube vs. solid state. In addition, I listened to all these without the DEQX engaged. So, no speaker/room correction.
The first album I listen to, whenever I change something out, is Metallica's St. Anger. It's a sonic piece of hot garbage and everyone knows it. If we really think about it though, it's a sonic version of Yamaha's NS10s. Essentially, if the album sounds worse, then I immediately know the previous piece was adding some form of coloration; which would make sense coming from a tube preamp. But, with the XP20, I found myself not able to listen, due to ear fatigue. I did became even more angered at Lars Ulrich...their drummer for those that don't listen to them. Why? Well, the first complaint many had with the recording were the drums. I believe the mic setup was two overhead mics, with super low gate thresholds, 2 kick mics and a snare mic. Now, for those of you that do listen to Metallica, the XP-20 will highlight what many of us have known for quite sometime, Lars Ulrich is a terrible drummer. I've heard them live numerous times over the last 30 years and my only take away was, "jeesh, does this guy ever practice". Live, he's constantly off measure. Just count a simple 4 and you'll begin to hear him veer out of time. But, St. Anger doesn't further highlight his timing, it's the studio, that's an easy fix, but his inability to remain constant with cymbal work and snare precision. The XP-20 highlights this, over and over again. The cymbals come way forward in the mix, further elevating this catastrophe of a recording. Overall, the album lives up to it's presence as a "garage band" recording, as some have put it.
Metallica ...And Justice For All is the second album I listen to. Again, not a great mix. The recording cost them $1M to do, in 1988 this was an astronomical amount for an album. It's the mix, they pulled the bass mix down -6db, it's generally inaudible. I use Blackened to see how soon I'm able to hear the bass. Like the C2500, at 2:50ish is the first time I heard the bass, same with the XP20. The mix is super compressed, sonically, the kick weighs heavy across the left/right pan with the guitars and vocals squished right up the middle. Again, not a great song to bear fruit in attempting to assess the two.
John Mayer, Paradise Valley, Waitin' on the Day. This song has a multitude of layers going on. Notably, there's a B3 Hammond mixing nicely with the slide work. With the C2500, the B3 was audible but didn't really punch through in any passage. The XP-20, it's clear, very, very clear. The B3 is way up in the mix, almost riding with the vocals. I had not been able to locate individual notes with the C2500, it came off as a background drone. The XP-20 really seemed to create a little separation between all the different instruments, allowing me to actually hear individual notes.
Radiohead, OK Computer, Let Down. I'll be a little biased here, I truly believe this song is a modern marvel. The mix is super dispersed, with multiple vocal tracks panned at various levels to the right and left. The guitars, they aren't super localized, but rather layered in the same manner the vocals are...wide and located at various levels on the pans. Immediately, the vocals become more defined, with a definitive left/right. It didn't sound off with the C2500, just not as much separation/isolation with the individual instruments. Specifically, at 4 minutes in, during the crescendo, rather than deflating back into the mix, it's as if the right panned vocal is raised in db a smidgen for effect. Further cementing, my belief, in the brilliance of this song. I had not noticed this prior to the XP-20. I had shuffle selected and it jumped to another Radiohead song, Reckoner, off of In Rainbows. Again, I had never heard it before, but the song kicks off with just the drums. The XP-20 picks up, what sounds like to me, their drummers headphone bleed. You're able to hear the drummer, with a faint trace of the intro guitar. I suspect they did a few measures of it, to avoid playing a click track.
I could continue to bloviate about the virtues of this preamp. I suppose I'll leave this digital entry for future McIntosh owners looking to leave their beloved gear for something else. It's intimidating and a little scary. I, for one, would be hard pressed to re-enter into their world. I like it, it sounds good to me, but the XP-20 sounds better. Maybe it's the solid state vs. tube debate, not sure and I'm not concerned with that debate . What I do know, the XP-20 takes what the C2500 does and moves the needle a couple notches. Nothing astronomical, but enough to warrant a change, for me. The XP20 isn't super verbose in any one area, it just sounds like it does all things, really, really, really well.
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