MC versus MM. Which to choose.



I am pretty much a vinyl newbie so bear with me. What are the benefits and drawbacks of both of these types of cartridges. Is there a clear better choice for someone just getting into vinyl? The MM seem to be less costly but how does it compare sonically? Take for instance the Clearaudio Concept cartridge. The MM retails for $200 while the MC retails for $800. Is the MC version a better sounding cartridge?
128x128lostbears

Showing 13 responses by nandric

My advice is to participate in some lottery (+10 Mil).
Your chance to win the loterry is approximately the same as
to find the Technics P100CMKIV,AKG P100 LE and Acutex M320
STR. But the difference is: if you win the lottery you will
not care about the rarity of those carts.

Regards,
The opinion that MM carts track piano music better (Lew,12-12-11) and voices (Inna, idem) I heard already in the 80s.
Then the context was the apperance of the first Supex MC cart which changed the game. Anyone wanted MC cart since then. While each of us has his own psychology nobody wanted to stay behind. This can be called 'collective psychology'.
Those who can rembember the 80s are now old enough to make
their own choice(s). That is btw why one need at least two tonearms.

Regards,
Dear Lew, I see that you was as 'self-willed' in the late
70s as you are at present. I myself was then a 'strong
believer' in the truth as presented by the HIFI Magazines. So I had just one subscription for the daily (news)paper but 4 HIFI Magazines. I have no exact recollection when the first TAS come out but for a long time it was my Bible and H. Pearson my pope. In any HIFI discussion I needed to use just one single argument:' according to Pearson...' The only problem was that I was not able to buy new gear each twoo months. However I was very fast with replacement of my ADC 25 for a Supex. My oldest son
got the ADC but refuses to give it back...

Regards,

"I like or am fond of my TT's a,b,c...n'' is a different proposition from ''I need the TT's a,b,c...n''. Cheating seems to be a relational 'concept' in the sense of cheating
sombody else. As such it has a very negative connotation.
But the most cases are about cheating our self and there is
no sense in attributing negative assumptions to this kind
of 'cheating'. Ie : mind your own buseness. According to
the most fundamental rules of the private Law anyone is entiteld to spend his own money as he may prefer. In principle that is.

Regards,
To my mind J. Carr is one of the most valuable member of our forum. In all of his contributions he demonstraded his scientific attitude, integrity , eloquence and kindness.
It is very unfortunate that some members are questioning
his integrity. It may be the conincidence regarding the MM-versus MC carts and the Atlas story but 'biased' is mentioned explicite.
I am the last to defend the MC prices but one should think
about import duty, importers and dealers fees. My estimate
is that the producer get 30% of the actual sell price. Besides for the question which kind, MM or MC, is really better sounding the price is not a relevant criterion. Ie it
is not about the value in terms of money . This question is already answered btw. While we all assume that anybody is free to spend his money as one pleases we are continualy
asking why should someone spend 8K for a cart. Then there is a very strong competition among MC producers so the market is supposed to solve this issue.

Regards,
Dear Raul, We have also this thread about 'Stand out phono
stages' in which the Lyra Connoisseur is mentioned as the
best phono-pre among all others. Whatever one may think about HIFI Magazines it seems that the common opinion about this phono-pre is universal. While your phono-pre is
according to you 'second to none' I have seen no reference
to your phono-pre anywhere at all. Tolking about 'biased'
opinions. While you have no any understanding of carts construction and production you have no problem at all to dismiss the opinion of one of the most talented designer we know at present. One which already designed and produced some of the best carts in the world. I mentioned earlier your arogance but this one is above any comprehension. There is something wrong with you in my opinion.

Regards,
Dear Raul, I have no idea how this Greek conception about
essences become universal because I am not aware that Aristoteles was teached everywhere. What I do know is that the Greek used this 'metal analogy' in attributing properties to humans. So if John has the property to be 'honest like gold' but robed some bank and seduced the wife of his best friend we feel somehow embarassed by those facts because they are contrary to what we assumed and believed. Consider this statement: copper sometimes conducts electricity and sometimes does not. This statement 'obviously' make no sense because we know that copper 'always' conducts electricity even if it is not connected to any electrical source. However this 'thought
model' is not adequate to 'describe' humans.
So, dear Raul, you get my praise with the good things you
do or have done and my critic when you state some 'bold'
things about your omnipotence ,extraordinary hearing capabilites, the highest level among all of us on your learning curve, etc.,etc,. This also apply to your gear.
I can claim as you do that all my componets are 'second to
none' if my own claims are to be considered as legitimate.
You stated explicite that your 'system' is better then the
'one'(?) J. Carr owns and this should 'explain' why you think that Carr is not able to hear the differences among carts like you can. But we , the poor souls, are seduced by
HIFI Magazines to believe that this J. Carr produced not only some of the best carts in the world but also the best preamp as well as the best phono-pre there is. Not to mention his proven capabilities. There is ,dear Raul, so much one can swallow depending on one's character and other capabilities but I am not among the 'blind followers' of anyone.
So dear Raul while you believe that I am ignorant about your capabilities you may be ignorant about my. I believe your descriptions of MM carts but am very skeptical when
you describe yourself. BTW is in Mexico the word 'modesty' totally unknown?

Regards,
Dear Raul, Thanks for your advice. I thought that our forum
is about (different) opinions and not about 'contenders'.
I 'use' the statements made and try to understand what they
are about before I can 'use' them. When I 'use' your statements I have no impression to use 'the person' Raul but rather that I agree with some of them and disagree with
some other. It is more a 'logical thing' you know then personal.I wish I could 'use' Carr. My first wish would be his phono-pre, the second the Atlas, the third...

Regards,
Dear Lostbears, The best MM cart I own (my opinion also)
is the Virtuoso wood. As you probable know whenever a cart
get recommendation by Raul and others this cart become
an 'object of disire' so we all hunt for this cart. However
I was able to buy two specimens of this cart with broken styli on the German ebay for 50 Euro each. Then I posted them to Axel for the upgrade with line contact styli and
different cantilevers. Added cost +/-170 Euro (-19% tax
for those outside E. Union). Are the Germans crazy? No but
they are not familiar with our MM thread and are consequently ignorant about the value of this cart even with the broken stylus. For the mentioned 'hunt' one need
'some' patience and search but can ease the waiting period
with some other MM cart. Anyway this the method I use . My
latest 'hunt' resulted in one AT 180 and one Signet 9LC for
about 160 Euro each.

Regards,
Dear Lostbears, To save you from the 'digital alternative'
as well to save you some money I need to add that there
are more 'alternatives' by Clearaudio MM carts. According

to Fleib all Clearaudio MM carts use the same 'generator'.
The difference in models and prices is because of different
styli and cantilevers. So no need to focus on the Virtuoso.
Under proviso that you will post the cart to Axel for the
upgrad you can buy the cheapest model and still get an very
good MM cart. I have just seen one on ebay.uk for cheap.

Regards,
Dear T_bone, There are many (LO)MC carts with low compliance. To assume that tracking capability is important is the same as to assume that those producers have no idea what they their job is about. I know since 80s that 50 micron on the test Records is agequate for the ''normal LP's'' but never 'got' the reason why they are produced except reg. the 'effective mass' of the tonearms.

Your statement ' L1000 plus HZ-1 and a phono stage' is not
clear to me. It is difficult to 'hunt' if one has no idea
about the 'animal in casu'. BTW how are we supposed to hunt in Japan?

Regards,
Dear Raul, Your 'brainstorm' is sometimes difficult to
understand. 'Software' is is a pretty recent expression
while I think that 'we' the humans deed pretty good before.
Anyway according to Darwin. Will you be so kind to express
your thoughts in a more elaborate way? To me: 'we are nothing without software' is not as evident as it is to you.

Regards,
Thank you Lewm. BTW I will watch the speakers forum as
soon as your Beveridge is in the cellar.

Regards,