Mating power cords with APL 3910

The likely reason you note greater "ease" when plugging components into the H8's analog outlets is that there is additional filtering on those outlets and some components may respond more favorably to this. Caelin felt that placing the additional filtration tin the analog section would better isolate that bank from the digital section.

None of the Hydras are in any way current limiting, however the Hydra 2 may in some instances be preferred with high-current products because it does not incorporate a Carling Breaker, which means one less contact point for the AC signal to traverse.

Sean, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I do enjoy reading most of your informed posts. You have however, made a number of statements related to construction costs, voltage sag, wiring and "design compromises" that are off the mark. I know our pricing model intimately and it is roughly a 5-1 ratio for *all* products. If a part costs a penny, we charge a nickel --and that's considered an antiquated pricing model by todays standards. Every part in the Hydras, from the wiring on to the plated buss systems are custom designed, and then either manufactured by or exclusively for us- even the wiring- excepting the thermally insulated MOV's which are commercially available. You may view some of the parts as over-rated or over-engineered and that is your right, but they are extremely costly to produce--forgetting even the cost or research and design. Our dealer margin is the same as that of speaker and electronics manufacturers. We cannot afford "special price incentives", sales person spiffs or 70%+ overseas margins. This often puts us at a serious disadvantage when competing with "specialty" cable and power companies that offer a great many "breaks" and incentives to dealers.

All Shunyata designs focus on using hand applied, custom made parts and proprietary terminations that reduce contact impedances and present no-limit to the instantaneous current demands of electronics. This is where a lot of money gets spent rather than on isolation transformers, chokes, coils or other reactive devices. Using conventionalyl available power-line caps, a choke, coil or iso-trannies were all considered and rejected because of issues related to reactance, non-linear current flow (such as thermal breakers) and restricted instantaneous current delivery.

If you decide to manufacture your own products and attempt to set up a network of specialty parts vendors, a US based factory, in-house cryogenic facilities and enough staff to run a company, you will likely learn that our retail prices are very reasonable.

Regarding the technical, buss core and wiring issues raised, I'm afraid Caelin would be best equipped to answer those questions, but he long ago gave up trying to answer critical points on the internet. Too often they are loaded with baiting for 'ether-sport' or an agenda, not simple fact finding--he simply does not have the time or inclination. We do not hide any design or construction elements, and anyone that cares to look can decide for themselves whether these make sense to them.

With regards to other comments people made about "marketing fluff and hype", we do very little of either. Forget the reviews, there are many accredited engineers, electronics manufacturers and professionals who understand perfectly what we do and are willing to speak for us. Most of our business is referred from manufacturers and professionals that use the Hydras.

My interests in responding are only related to reading so much opinion--some of it poorly informed, presented in a somewhat pointed way, when much of it runs contrary to what I know to be the truth.

We run an honest business staffed by good people. The products all use solid engineering principles and are purposefully uncomplicated--at a casual glance. Opinions about what might be a better performer or more economical are fine. When serious questions are raised about the integrity of the products or the people that make them however, I feel the need to at least weigh-in.

Regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research

Sean, thanks for the reply. You are correct in that I did not directly address your technical points, and that is because I would not be as well equipped as Caelin (who designed the Hydras) to provide as complete an answer. I will however speak with him about your queries and get back to you asap.

I did not claim that you specifically have an agenda, but the talk forums seem to breed people that do, and some individuals seek out circular argument just for sport--and they have nothing to lose. Companies that run a legitimate business with some type of commercial profile are prime targets. I know that you do not run any type of related business, but I have also noted your comments that you are considering it, and that is not entirely irrelevant to your questions.

Related to another question about individual systems and dedicated lines/Hydras. I would prefer to answer those queries via e-mail or phone and not take up forum space with a reply.

In general, if one has multiple dedicated lines, it is always best to make use of them and separate high-current from low-current electronics. No one power distribution product can overcome the advantage of separating electronics on their own lines--which is why we make the H2's, 4's and 6's.

I can be reached via grant@shunyata.com if there are other specific questions.

Sean, I will get back to you either directly or with a reply to the thread if it is still here.

Thanks.

Grant

First, to answer Sean's question about wiring and voltage drop in the Hydras. The Hydra 8's outlets are all wired individually and run from each outlet to the internal chassis that has the Copper buss system and FeSi 1002 compounds within, so with the 8, the point is moot.

The Hydra models 4 and 6 duplex outlets are connected consecutively with 2" silver/rhodium plated buss straps--as pictured on our web-site. The measured Voltage drop across a 2" 9 gauge silver plated buss strap is so small that it is irrelevant to operation and could not possibly create a voltage sag that would harm or otherwise alter the performance of electronics that are connected. There will always be a common point at which current converges no matter the wiring or buss arrangement, so pointing to this as evidence of inexpensive construction quality is far off the mark. Running wiring from the individual outlets in the 4 and 6 would actually be *less expensive* than designing and manufacturing the silver/rhodium buss straps. Caelin made that design choice to improve the units performance, not to cheapen manufacturing. We did have measurements posted in our technology section that show the outlet-outlet isolation in the 8 but Caelin wanted to update that and re-post with more complete test results. Caelin will be re-posting a recently completed set of measurements representing the circuit isolation of all the Hydras. In the mean-time, the fluke 43 power analysis results can be seen via our SoundStage Hydra 8 review-link:http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/shunyata_hydra_8.htm

To answer the other questions regarding Hydras, the most relevant difference between the units performance in Audio/studio applications is not the number of filter elements used, necessarily, but the difference in the units buss architecture. The Model 8 uses all copper wiring and a massive (7lbs) Copper buss, milled from solid ingots of CDA 101 copper. It also has the patented compounds surrounding the buss structure. The Hydras 6 and 4 are more minimalist in design (purposefully) and use the more direct-connection-silver buss (minimal contact impedance, minimalist AC path) construction. These differences mean that the Hydra 8 will have a more robust tonal presentation, it will sound more rich, full-bodied, but slightly slower(subjectively speaking) than the more immediate, forward presentation of the 6 and 4 models. The Hydra 2 splits the difference tonally because it has no buss and only has the 9 gauge copper wiring running from IEC to outlet. The Hydra 8 is definitely our reference, and that is the product I generally recommend when working with studios, but the smaller units might actually be preferred in predominantly tube or all analog systems--it depends on one's preference. Sony Music New York preferred the models 6 and 4 because to they seemed more "Transparent" with mastering equipment, while other studios such as Astoria and Rick Rubin preferred the 8 and the 2's because they had more weight and richness...

When working with 2-3 dedicated lines, it is best to try model 2's for amps on separate lines whenever possible, and then choose the Hydra to evaluate that best suits the number of components that make up the rest of the system. If cost is no object, then an 8 is our reference, but the 4 and 6 might be worth trying if you only have 2-3 other components.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Regards,

Grant