Marantz SA10 sacd player

jayctoy,

Since you are the one with the sacd laser issue, it would be informative if you could check and post your T22 level.

If you cannot do it, then I imagine Casper at Stereo Rehab would do it before opening up your player. It takes only a few seconds, if you know what to do.

Afterall, if the LOL is in the good area, between 1000 and 2100, then the laser does not need replacing. 

The connections on the rear of the SA-10 for digital inputs are optical (Toslink), coaxial (SPDIF), USB, and for IPOD.

In the event that the SACD laser becomes non-functional the player still retains DAC functionality for the above inputs. The only above input that accept DSD is the USB input connection. The player remains fairly functional.

However, the reason for having the player is generally to play sacd discs.

This is a bit of a strange thread in some ways. The Marantz SA-10 is a current production model and will definitely be serviced by an Authorized Marantz Service Center. The OP does seem to indicate that the only Marantz Service Center he has contacted seems to only do warranty repairs, which does not seem right, but could be so. If the player is out of warranty, then of course the owner will pay for repairs!!

But this player needs to go to a proper Marantz Service Center to be examined for the described issue. It is a quick 2 minute procedure to determine the laser output level, and if there is a deficiency with that. Of course it could be something else, though not likely.

The traverse assembly (laser assembly) is an in-stock part at Encompass, the Marantz parts house, and only costs $50. But by the time the technician replaces the part and certifies the player to be repaired, the total cost is a fair bit more as repairs take time and time costs money. But the repair should not be overly expensive.

Hello Again,

Below is a link to the Authorized Marantz Service Centers as currently listed by Marantz.

Find a Service Center | Marantz

You have indicated that United Radio did not want to do your repair. Have you contacted the other 3 service centers in your general area? I find it difficult to believe that an authorized manufacturer repair center would refuse to repair a manufacturer's product, as that is the whole point of being a manufacturer service repair center.

However, if you have your SA-10 serviced at another repair shop, you might be wise to furnish the shop with the Service Manual for the SA-10. The Service Manual has complete diagnosis and repair instructions for the traverse assembly of the SA-10. 

Send me a personal message if you need or would like a copy of the Service Manual.

The Masimo sale has really changed the Marantz operations, especially in service, which was never known to be great in the past. Though to be fair, it tended to vary more by each repair shop than anything else.

The standard Marantz US warranty is 3 years from date of purchase for original owner. So you are totally out of warranty and will pay for all repair costs. It does not matter where you take your player. Any repair shop that repairs cd players should be able to diagnose and repair your player. Failure to read sacd layer is usually a laser output issue. This takes about 1 minute to check, if the technician knows Marantz procedures. As mentioned earlier, the laser traverse unit for the SA-10 is currently in stock and available from the Marantz parts supplier, Encompass Parts. The cost is $51. Shop time should not be more than the standard charge plus one hour labor time. Replacing the laser in these players is a simple procedure for a knowledgeable technician.

From you above post it seems that you live in the Chicago area. You should have no trouble finding a repair shop. If the shop needs a Service Manual for your player, I might be able to help out. It does not seem to be currently available from online suppliers, but that could change at any time as they have been available quite recently.

All the best.....

jayctoy,

Here is a link to Encompass with the needed information on the laser/traverse assembly: 991312100050S Marantz E2a022a Travers Unit Sa11s3 (encompass.com)

FWIW, the SA-11S3, SA-10 and SA-KI Ruby all use this same laser/traverse assembly.

The unit comes complete.

I have just sent you a Personal Message. Please read it.

jayctoy,

Here is how you can check the Laser OutPut Level (LOP) of the lasers in the SA-10

Player needs to be fully OFF, not on standby, OFF. Everything after step 2 is done with the remote.

1. Enter Aging Mode from OFF, as stated above.
2. Press Open, Stop and ON simultaneously to enter Aging Mode.
The tray will open. Just press close on the remote to close the tray. No need to put in a disc.
3. Right click once and T21 laser check will show in the display window.
4. Press the play arrow and a number will be displayed. This is the cd laser LOP.
5. Right click again and T22 laser check will show.
6. Press the play arrow again and a number will be displayed. This is the sacd laser LOP.
7. Exit Aging Mode by pressing the OFF button on the front panel of the player.

The median LOP is 2100. The acceptable range is +- 50%, or 1000 to 3200.
When the LOP goes outside the acceptable range it is time to replace the laser.

The relevant number for you is the T22 number. 

Steve

That's okay. The above post is more relevant to you anyway. Easy, as in not difficult or technical in any way, to check the LOP levels of your lasers.

jayctoy,

When you take your player to, wherever it is, to be assessed, be sure to take along a couple of the discs that don't get read.

Also, did you check your laser output yet? It only takes a minute or less.

jayctoy,

Here is something else that you can do before you take your player in that will only take you one minute and is not technical or difficult. It would be good if you could check the hours of use on each laser. 

1. Enter aging mode as described yesterday - Open, Stop, and On simulataneously.

2. Once in aging mode, do 5 right clicks on the remote until the display reads TB1.

3. Press Play on the remote and read and copy the hours. The display will read whatever number of hours followed by "hrs".

4. Right click once more and the display will read TB2.

5. Press Play on the remote and again, read and copy the number.

6. TB1 is the cd laser and TB2 is the sacd laser.

7. Turn the player OFF, and that gets you out of "aging mode".

I would be most interested in how many hours you have on your sacd laser. I do this check on the first of every month since I found out how to do it. It is just for reference, but interesting. I have had my player a few months longer than you have had yours. I have well over 2000 hours on each laser at present, just checked 2 days ago.

When you take your player in, whoever works on it should do these two checks before starting. Or at least I would think that would happen. It is a quick check and tells a lot.

Steve

Classerich,

I think I have a good idea about your situation. 

Since the introduction of the SACD-M transport assemblies in the SA-7 and SA-11S2 players, Marantz Service Centers would only replace the whole SACD-M assembly, not just the laser. And since most all laser failures occurred past the warranty period, Marantz was under no real obligation to the customer. So the Service Centers told customers, and repair shops, that the needed part was not available. I have read a few instances of that happening on various forums.

With your SA-10 the Service Center seems to have done the same thing and told you that the part was unavailable. Yet, the SA-10 is still a production model, and Marantz supplies the SACD-M assembly to companies like DCS and Playback Designs. What Marantz likely does not have is a number of extra SACD-M assemblies for repair/replacement.

But all that is needed is just the laser mecha replacement in the assembly. And to that end, Marantz included instructions in the SA-10 Service Manual for mecha replacement. Why an authorized Service Center would refuse to do this is anybody's guess, as repairing units is the whole purpose of a Service Center.

In your case, your player was under warranty so Marantz had to do something, as that is what a warranty is all about.

I have a thread on a few forums asking is anyone has had a laser failure with a SA-10, Ruby, or SA11S3 player. There have been a number of views, but no posts. So I'm thinking you might be about the only one so far. Lucky for you that you were under warranty.

I would also suspect that your old player got repaired and made available for sale from an authorized seller like Accessories4Less. They would sell the unit as a Factory Refurbished unit for a substantial discount from the new price.

immathewj,

I would tend to think that your player is as it was described by MD when you bought it. MD is not like Accessories4Less. It came as it did because the previous people had obviously discarded the packing material and misplaced the power cord, both of which happen a lot. Marantz no longer ships with an Owners Manual. You have to download it. They saved about 3 cents doing that, but it adds up I guess. I would not worry.

I have given everyone here the means to be able to track laser time and life. And everyone should do this from time to time.

These players are very good. They were all built in Japan under the previous Marantz design team and ownership. They have unique circuitry, design and performance. The laser mechanisms are first rate. But this is electronics, so nothing lasts forever.

The two corporate ownership sales in the past 4 years have really had an effect on the whole Marantz operation, especially service. Massimo has no experience in consumer audio. And it shows.

Good to read that Stereo Rehab can do the deed.

Some time ago I wrote about Aging Mode and how people can check their laser hours and laser output levels. I check my laser hours on the first of every month, just because I can do it. I also check laser output levels every 6 months. The laser output level is the T21 and T22 in Aging Mode. The critical numbers really are the T2 hours and the T22 output levels. These are the sacd laser numbers. I just checked mine. In the past 6 months I put 330 hours on my sacd laser. The T22 output level was unchanged. 

I would urge every user to keep track of their sacd laser output level, the T22 check. It is simple and easy to do.

Yes, I received the PM. Thanks.

BTW, you are the first known person to have an SA-10 laser failure and replacement amongst player owners on audio forums. These players have been around quite a while and the laser mechs do seem quite reliable. However, it is entirely possible that this could happen again to your player. It might be wise to check the initial Laser Output Level of the new laser, as that will give you a benchmark figure. And then once or twice a year just check the sacd LOL.

Hm, okay, you say so.

I did mention that it was amongst owners who post on forums.

In the past there has been no shortage of posts on forums, more so in the days of the sacd.net forum, about Marantz laser failures and terrible Marantz service.

The Marantz Reference Series players from SA-7 on, have seemed to have better laser lifetimes that earlier players.

The more worrisome note in this thread is the Marantz Service Center that would not repair a Marantz player for customer pay. In the 00's I used 2 Marantz Service Centers for Marantz repairs that I paid for, with no issues whatsoever.

It is unethical to sell a problematic player and not mention it in the ad. It will lead to nothing but trouble, for everyone involved. Yet people do it.

The first used sacd player I bought in 2007 failed to read the first 3 sacd's I tried. Seller then claimed the player had worked perfect for him. He either only played rbcd's or was a liar. It was easiest to just send the player to Marantz Service and get it fixed. Disputing a sale, even on Ebay, gets pretty long winded and tiresome.

While people can surmise that owners of SA-10 and Ruby have had laser issues and not post about them is fine. But it is not first-hand knowledge of such. The laser mechs are also sold to high end companies dcS and Playback Designs. That in itself does not guarantee flawless operation, but it does ad credibility to these being very good laser mechanisms that won't have the issues of earlier sacd lasers.

Tvad, thanks for the clarification. 

I have been seeking first-hand knowledge of laser transport issues with the SA-10's and Ruby's for some time without much success. I mostly just wanted an idea of how long the laser mech was lasting.

Now I know how to track my own laser output level, so not as concerned as before.

jayctoy,

Yes, you used your player a lot. Pity you didn't take the time to check the laser use times and levels before you took it in to be repaired. But you didn't. 

You mentioned that you bought an open box player, so it came with some use time on it. Impossible to know how much it had when you started.

Anyway, with the new laser you have a chance to start at the beginning and can monitor the laser, if you choose to do so.

It is all better now!

A couple of extra things here......

For years I used a Marigo mat with discs in my SA-8260. So, of course I tried it with the first disc in the Ruby when I got it. Didn't work. The Marigo mat is quite thin, but still it was too thick. So that was that for the mat. They cannot be used in the new Marantz transports.

Then there is shipping and packing......

Always keep the original packing material!!!! You can then safely ship a player when needed. But you have to use the original packing material, all of it. Remember, most every player gets shipped, usually across an ocean in a boat then on roads in a truck. The original packing is made for this.

I used to buy used 8260 players, for parts. Ones that came with original packing always came in good condition. Ones that didn't come with original packing always came with a broken pcb, ruining half of why I was buying the player. 

jayctoy,

You will be doing yourself a big favor if you take the readings of hours and LOL on the new laser. That will give you benchmarks for all future use and time.

Steve

The laser hours only count the time the laser is ON when reading a disc. 

I would follow what the SA-10 manual states regarding this issue.