Magnetization & Demagnetization any conclusions?

Has nothing to do with static electricity. You still need a Zerostat for that. Furutech claims in their white paper that there are enough ferrous particles in the pigment used to color the vinyl.

http://www.furutech.com/news/FURUTECHdeMagNews2006.htm

You certainly don't need to spend $1800 or even $200 to get the benefit of demagnetizing. I've heard from some folks who have good success using a bulk tape eraser.

I've been through about 50 different LP's and I've yet to find one that did not sound noticeable better. It is like lifting a veil. It works on CD's as well. I haven't tried it on a DVD but I hear from others that it does improve the picture as well.

Sorry, Bob. It works, so there must be magnetic particles.

Typical marketing spin from Mapleshade. "Don't buy their stuff, it doesn't work. Buy Mapleshade's stuff."

I'm sorry, but if they're claiming demag'ing is manipulating static they are the one's who have missed the mark. Again, this does nothing for static. Your LPs will still attract dust. Mapleshade is stating that there thingy is meant to address static, which means you'll need to use it over and over again, just like a Zerostat. And, yes, I bet I can go back with a magnetizer and mess things up. That's just re-introducing a magnetic field to the vinyl. No different than adding or removing magnetism to a screwdriver.

Go back a read the link I posted from Furutech. They claim to have measured the magnetic field in LPs. I demag, I hear an improvement. That's enough for me to accept that the theory has merit. I didn't say proved, just that it has merit.

I'm suggesting to not buy any of the "audiophile" magnets. That's just spending more money needlessly to get the same results as a much cheaper demag'ing product. We do enough unnecessary spending in this hobby as it is. But in the end, it is your money.

Try it, don't try it. But as Doug and Mothra caution, keep it well away from from your cartridge.

Hi Jim,

Love those cleaning solutions!

I always thought this demag concept was more audiophile snake-oil and never gave it any serious consideration. My mind was changed when Doug and Paul gave a demonstration of the results. I was impressed with the difference but still not willing to fork out even $200 for a Talisman. Thanks to some research by Paul, the device in use is under $100 and I think you can score bulk tape erasers for even less on e-bay.

Again, if this were simply manipulating static charges I should be able to rub a demag'ed lp on my cat and make the playback change. Or simply sliding them in and out of their jackets in the frigid weather here in New England is plenty static enough to affect a change. But it doesn't. I should be able to hold the lp in my hands and touch a ground, or better yet touch the ground with the lp, and remove the effects. Again, it doesn't happen. I've not been doing this as long as Doug but I do agree that the effect of demag'ing does not seem to go away even after a few months. The static is always there, especially when the humidity levels are down around 20%. I don't believe that the static charges built up on vinyl are strong enough to have an effect on the magnetic field orientation, however small it is in an lp. Static charges are surface charges.

I believe we all know how much better things sound when static is controlled. But all you need do is remove what ever static safeguards are in place and you will hear the detrimental effects. This is not true of the demag effects. You can disconnect the ground wire, not use the Zerostat (which, BTW, I don't use any anti-static device other than grouding), whatever. You will still hear the effect of demag'ing.

It would also make sense that the strength of the demag'ing tool will decide how well, or maybe how long, the magnetic fields stay re-oriented after a treatment. Maybe why the Talisman needs to be used over and over.

The claim is that the particles are in the pigment, not in the plastics. I'm curious if any of your contacts are familiar with the compounds used to color LPs? I'd be interested in hearing feedback from your contacts on the claims in the Furutech white paper. If we accept for the moment that the pigment is the key to this, I would expect that non-colored vinyl should not respond to the demag at all. I think I have a clear lp somewhere. If so I'll give it a try.

That's always the best thing, try it for yourself. BTW, I'm not trying to refute any physicists or chemists. I certainly don't know exactly what is taking place. I am curious to know what these guys have to say about what may or may not be happening, but then they would have to consider the whole picture. Magnetics, statics, cartridge signal generation, what solution is used to color the vinyl, etc. It may be easier to explain what is happening with ceedees and other digital medium.

Well, that was the point I was trying to make. The Talisman and the Ionoclast do two separate operations. The post of Mapleshade's response read to me like they were saying that the devices that address magnetics didn't work as well as the Ionoclast. But the Ionoclast only addresses static. Don't use a screwdriver to drive a nail.

That is how I would describe it. Lower noise floor which allows one to better hear separation of the notes and stuff. This is definitely in the realm of insanity and one will get much more of an impact by properly cleaning their records. But I find the 10 or 15 seconds it takes is worth it, and I have yet to find a record that needs an additional treatment. Nor do I find any difference in static behaviors. I.e., I still have to use my zerostat gun.

If something induces a current one could probably hear it, especially with a low output cart. I don't think lifting the motor at least a quarter of an inch above the lp is going to show much of anything as far as the tiny magnetic fields that these appear to be. Static, on the other hand, has been known to induce snaps and pops with an arm still on the rest. But that is built up potential that wants to jump to equilibrium. I don't know if this "technique" is actually removing magnetism or just causing them to orient differently.

I seem to recall that someone did try to measure this. Maybe it was soon after Fremer's article, I'll see if I can find it.

Yeah, who ever heard of changing the path of optical particles with magnetic fields. ;-)

The only thing ridiculous about this is that some companies want to charge an audiophool "tax" on demag products. Even at $200, the Walker Talisman is over priced. But $1800 for the Furutech is way beyond stupid.

I can't say specifically about Quietex, and I only have one clear vinyl record. I did not hear any improvement with that record, but it sounds pretty damn good anyway. The explanation I have read is that the ferrous particles come with the carbon black used as pigment. I haven't tried it yet but in theory reversing the process should affect the sound.