EBM,you and I both know you have never heard the Sason.You purchase products by cache "only".I knew you for years,and you "always" bought on reviews and reputation ONLY!
Besides, if you are so happy,why are you adding a Rel woofer to the Mini?You have a small room,and the Mini is perfect as is.Apparently you are not satisfied,and we both know that to be true.We had numerous conversations before you decided what was important in your life.No help on the home front there!
There is NO way that a REL will be a successful match!I guess you are getting bored again.
Anyway,I offer the original poster an oportunity to check out a fabulous design,that comes with a 45 day full money back guarantee.
According to those folks(me included) who have heard the Sason,as well as the Stereomojo review(who stated it was superior to the Mini,btw)it is the better speaker.Some folks think through their "decisions",and weigh the consequences.
I'm offering a well thought out alternative,no more.
Best to all |
I believe it would be common sense to assume that the easier the load a speaker places on it's partnering amp,the less distortion would be had.This would bode well for the V-2 I'd think. |
Trust me folks,it would not behoove EBM to "go there".He has already lost the respect of our entire friends group on the matter!
I'll leave it at that,but my posts have a "damn good reason" behind them....Still,all in all I admit it does not belong on Audiogon and am sorry for being stupid enough to drop down to that level....A level a particular poster knows well. |
Er,um...I was unaware I was supposed to leave feedback for those folks who "bought from me".All got "exactly" what was advertised,and great stuff!
EBM,give it a rest and be really happy I did not leave the feedback you surely deserved!I knew it would kill you if I did so(legitimately,btw)and decided not to do it.
Drop it,or I'll spill the beans! |
Btw, EBM,
As stated by cooler headed posters,it would be in both of our interests to drop this NOW!!!.....(Jtimothya,nice to see you still posting....and,sorry for "this" absurd thread,but I have good reason).
I really don't want to persue this anymore and truly am sorry to ALL of the good folks having to put up with this.
Still,I have a damn good gripe,so let's just drop it here.O EBM,you can read my private message sent to you today.That will put everything in proper perspective.Not that you did not know that already,but if you continue to "push this here" I am not going to let you demean me,and will embarrass you with your underhanded ploys!
Let's at least agree to drop it here and now.OK? |
Btw,I should have mentioned that I am very familiar with that lovely looking(really gorgeous)and silken sounding Jadis JA-80.
I have a friend who ran it on the mid/high sections of his Infinity RS-1B's.He wrote the Mercury LP series for TAS,and a good bit of those "classic reviews" were with the Jadis in use.Not too shabby at all-:)
I heard it on many occassions,and though the wattage was only 60wpc,those panels(not efficient,so an accolade for the amp's clout)really opened up,and sang!
The crossover,at the time,was set to kick in just above 80 hz for the Jadis to come into play,but still having owned the Infinity's myself(for three years)that amp had darn good dynamics.I never thought anything was missing.
Damping factor could not have been too bad,as the amp delivered the goods!Just take a look at that oversized power supply,if one can get past the stunning chassis,which isn't easy.....Real eye candy!
I'd not worry much about driving the Mini,or V-2,unless you like to split plaster.
Hope this helps |
Mili....You are smart to realize that it is the combination of amp/speaker(let's not forget the room)interface that determines success.....I have a sneakey suspicion that you are ultimately going to have a fabulous system.
Aside from that,you could start another war with all those choices-:)
Also,just my opinion,but your amp is beautifully smoothe,while not colored,so if you move towards a higher resolution speaker design you should have great success.
It's your call,and I know it is not easy....but...it's alot of fun....NO? -:)
Personally,those Little Sonus Fabers are very fine.I've heard them a few times and like them alot,but that is one man's opinion.
Good luck |
Dave,I had a very talented friend who mega-modded his 3.6's.He did a great job,so I know from where you are coming...still..I've also been quite impressed with a few very well done box designs.
I'm open to anything that works,and while on the subject of boxes,the Magico Mini has superb low freq if correctly loaded in a good/appropriately matched room!
However,like the Maggies they are a tough load,and need horse power.That makes them not the best match for a good mid/low power tube amp,which are the most appealing to me these days.
One reason I am so impressed with the Sasons. |
Hmm,well though I really "do" like the Mini actually,I must admit Maggies are wonderful/well priced designs...but...
having a few friends who has had them over the years,they take up alot of space,and are a difficult product to convince the wife to add to a living room/audio room/"any" room"-:)
So,not to knock anything(since we are all talking about truly fine designs) I personally like a combination plate(just for me,if and when I make a comeback,as in "sell my house"...since my last child is moving out)...
Here's my choice,based on experience and my own intuition...
Ridge Street Audio Sason,with Townshend Ribbon Super Tweters(heard these on a similar silk dome tweeter,and was floored)and "two" supporting JL Audio Fathom 110 subs.Sealed design and bullet fast.
I LOVE the MINI,but this combo can be had for almost half the price,with NO drawbacks....Best thing is a good tube amp can easily drive this.....ONLY my taste!!
Best to all...."almost"! -:) |
Hey Dave b....no disrespect,but I have heard "that" box arguement on "so" many occassions I can't keep up with it!
In today's world,with the type of technology available,it is an "old news" story.A well designed box can be superb!!The Magico stuff is a testament to that...but...
Going further back in time(like the 1990's)the "original" Avalon company(headed by Charles Hanson,now of Ayre)made a speaker called the Ascent MK-II.It was imo,the original Magico(massive sealed cabinet,totally inert,and with amazing external crossovers,not to mention easy load on an amp,and stunning inner detail...."if set up well")and as of last year(when I sold my pair)it was about as good as a speaker got,"based on commensurate room size,and driving it properly",in a givin space.
It was tricky to get just right,but I swear that was "one great speaker".WAY ahead of itself,and those selling it(me included....but I was forced to)had no clue of how much more "it" could get out of a well matched system....."The box thing" was laughably a non issue,as it "is" with Magico and a few other top notch designs around today.
Personally,I like to be open minded,and favor some designs that fly under the radar....until they get a review and Kaboom,the prices go up!
I specifically remember recommending the Mini's to a particular poster(on this thread) about two years ago(just before the BIG reviews)because on paper it seemed superb(which it "is")but the fellow would not show any interest,until the press started to tout it,and it got the rave reviews.Just being a great design was not enough.
"Nothing wrong there,and human nature,I guess".
Yet it's nice to think outside the box(or non box) and consider the fact that there is a load of very fine products out there,if one has good buying instincts.
Boxes can be great!It's up to the mfgr to "do it" properly(but at that level they are expensive).Of course,one can argue for designs like Maggie,Martin Logan or Quad etc,and you'd not get an arguement from me.
I've heard it all,and am very open to anything that works....to my taste -:)
Rather than criticize folks for being a bit contrary,it can also serve as a potential learning experience to "consider" the alternatives.
Then if something seems interesting,take it to another level and check out the website/design objective,and maybe scope out a source for an audition.Makes sense to me,and with today's escalating high end audio prices,the only approach I'll attempt.
Best |
Actually "French Sound" is rather easy to recognize....
EITHER
"anything" by Ravel,Debussy.....preferrably conducted by Andre Cluytens,on a nice early pressing EMI LP......
OR
A hefty serving of Fois Gras,followed by Escargot and heavy Duck in Orange sauce....then....
wait until about 3:00 AM and "VOILA"....
FRENCH SOUND!! -:)
Which ever you prefer is strictly a personal choice! |
No doubt this has gotten a bit carried away.JM Labs and Magico are only a small sample of "fine sounding" speakers.
French,Smench....Puhleeeze!
I can understand the human element here,but having been in the hobby for 40 years,I've heard it all!!
ALOT of varying great stuff!!If someone pidgeon holes specific designs into "one" category,sadly they have been in this for too short a period...BTW, I am making a generalized statement,without pointing a finger to anyone in particular.
Btw,a GREAT alternative amp for a Magico is the Cary 211 Anniversary Edition....THAT is what a powerful tube amp should look/sound like.No dumb moving parts/fans,and a great circuit!
Best |
Hmm,well in this case you are correct Audiofeil,but why be so literal?.....Of course,there could be a hidden agenda...Hmm!
Back to the MINI,and my simple opinion...to get back to topic(partly).
These are truly GREAT speakers!!I'm assuming a buyer is going to put them in a "proper" room.One that is of a size that allows for good "room loading".Mid size and maybe a touch larger,and the "sub" question should not be a factor at all,IMO.
I've heard these speakers do deep/linear bass in a mid size-ish room and with superb impact/dynamics.
When you consider the aesthetic element,and build quality,they rae an amazing design.
I've come to appreciate these new age two way designs.There are a few around(not only the Mini).
When driven well,they simply are NOT there,and are amazingly coherent.This all started(for me)when I first heard the Kharma 3.2's(I think that is the numerical name...but it was the fabulous two way)driven by the Lamm 2.1 amps.
Big designs,though they have their place,just began to look like fossils after exposure to a great two way,like the MINI!!
I did hear the V-2 for a short while,but I guess it's plain Jane look affected my sensibilities.I thought them to be very nice,but also felt the MINI was more coherent....and....
the MINI "does" deep enough and powerful enough bass to not worry me at all.
Still,I am always looking for the "next" Mini type design,at a more affordable price...ya never know-:)
Btw,I'm willing to bet the Clayton M-200's would be an amazing amp on "any" Magico!
In SS amps,it seems that every six months there is some new,rediculously expensive amp that gets a rave review,and suddenly "that" becomes the "it" product for a while.
The Clayton stuff is very well priced,and it's designer is a flat out genius in "circuit" design.
Just my opinions.Nothing more.
|
OK,WHEW!!!...Only on Audiogon,I swear!
Back to the Magico Mini,and I "don't" own one(yet I am a HUGE fan of "many" fine designs...the Maggies are one,btw)!!!
The one thing I found simply amazing about the MINI was it's fabulous ability to properly voice the upper midrange.This is not as easy as one thinks,especially when playing full blown orchestral music....loud!!
Here is a simple two way(overbuilt for a good reason)that must allow that fantastic tweeter to go down far enough to beautifully blend with an amazing mid/woofer(which must surely go up a good bit higher in freq than many competitors designs.Here is where the "magic" is found...for me.
I've heard many LP's and Cd's on the system with the Mini,and was always able to easily pick out the subtle inner most details and textures in the upper mid area,which are not all that easy to "do" at "volume",without graining up,or falling apart,or losing the "meat" of a harmonic!It sustains a wonderful sense of air,and space....I admit these are just my own hot buttons!
The drivers are fabulous!!
This is an often over looked area of "hobbyist" discussion,because(as seen here) so many folks get SO stupidly caught up with bass or loudness,or something else is better(and sometimes it's true...so what?).
This thread has plummeted to the rediculous(I've been responsible for those kinds too,so I'm not all that innocent)and on the "Musical instrument" websites where I spend most of my time these days,the thread would have been shut down!
Anyway,from my "call it" limited experience, of 40 years,and loving alot of stuff,I can truly say that there is too much wealth of great components in "any" category these days.
Each person is entitled to his/her personal taste,though some folks may be rather limited in allowance for the difference in what they are used to...No problem from me....these days!
In this case the Mini is the subject of discussion and it is a "great" design,imo.
Yes,it may be best in "somewhat" tight quarters(not as tight as you'd think)but the speaker goes DEEP and POWERFUL!!!!
Not my fault if someone is not driving it well,or has a lousey room.Don't blame the speaker!!
In the hobbyist's room where I heard it,and helped set it up it did "everything"!!
Does not take up much space.Looks beautiful.Fabulous build quality...what more could one want,other than a low price?
I most likely will rationalize my own personal choice when the time comes,now that I've sold my system,due to poor mfgr service of too many components,an upcoming wedding of my daughter and poor economy,and "not" wishing to cut my employees' salaries(yet,my choice will still be a great design....to me)but that will take "nothing" away from the MINI!!
Good luck to those owning a Magico design.You are very fortunate,and for those owning "whatever",as long as you are happy,who cares what some "stranger" on a web-site thinks? |
You might want to take a look at the Ridge Street Audio "Sason" speaker.Just take look at the web page at least.
This is a world class monitor that has some real advantages over the "fine" Magico.It is as well built,but has the significant advantage of easy drive,and will work very well with your amp.The amp/speaker interface is very important in this scenario.
I like the Mini very much,but it is not an easy load,and the crossover is "still" in the same cabinet as the drivers(works well,but not ideal).
The Sason has a crossover that is employed in the base/stand and it is "hard wired" to the speaker.It also is a very easy load,and has a tuneable bass port design,that is quite ingenious.The speaker connects to the cabling with a Cardas "clamp" system,for no signal loss.
It has gotten raves from those hearing it,and comes with a 45 day money back guarantee.SERIOUS!
I am coming back to the hobby,in another few months and this design is high on my list.
I,like you,want to run a good tube design amp,which works best with the Minis.The "only" amp I heard with the Minis which allowed for true texture was the VAC stuff.Just fabulous,was the VAC,with the better textural detail compared to SS designs(Solid state is fine,but loses some reality on the Minis,imo).
I have NO affiliation with Ridge Street Audio,but having looked hard at the monitor market(for obvious reasons)and liking a good stand mount,this Ridge Street Audio design has got me excited about audio again.
All in all,the Magicos are fine speakers....The Ridge Street Audio Sason is "considerably" lower in price,because you buy direct...yet....the design has been refined for years.
Good luck,in whatever you chose!! |
Roypan,thanks for your concern.Why am I not surprised?
My post was,and "is" valid...and there is an aspect of it you know nothing about!
My suggestion about the "Sason speaker" is quite valid.You,on the other hand spew distaste on a regular basis,if someone disagrees with any of your thoughts.Which "truly" bring little to the table,from what I've read.Thankfully,not much-:)
I'll not respond to anything you care to post from now on.So have some fun,and fire away!
There is little to be gained from someone like yourself,and "why" would you have to insinuate your negative attitude to me,at this point,on "this" thread?......Oh yes,you did not like some of my comments about my "opinions" from about six months ago.Now,I get it!....Man,you sure hold a grudge!!
I was certainly not referring to you here,and "did" compliment the Minis(the speakers you own),only offering a wonderful alternative....
While we are on the subject(pertaining to the "original poster's legitimate querry")the Volent VL-2 is a "superlative and beautiful to behold" monitor, to look at as well.It has the original mid/bass driver of the first generation Magico Mini,while adding a superlative high performance ribbon driver,for the top end.All in a gorgeous package,AND about one quarter the cost of the "excellent" Magico.It,too was reviewed(and compared favorably)to the Mini by the wonderful reviewer Srajaen Eaben,of Six Moons awhile ago.
Anything wrong with saving a few dollars,or is "expensive" always better?...Fuel for thought,for the "thinking hobbyist".
Give me a break,and stay on topic. |
To the original Poster...Milimetr---
Back to the excellent Mini's or the V-2 for a moment...
These are very fine speakers,but they are very sensitive/responsive to room placement(a good thing).I had a hand in setting up a Mini system,so I know it well.I doubt anyone will not state that these work best by giving them a good amount of room to breathe.
Unfortunately,in the set up I had a hand in,the particular owner was handcuffed with a terrible,and very crowded room.Not to mention a life partner who was so angst driven,and loaded with "anger issues",that "he" could not so much as move the speakers "one inch",without having to do it on the sneak....A recipe for disaster,sadly!
Anyway,this set up measured very poorly,when an experienced audio friend ran a sweep on it.It was off by almost ten db at 60-80 hz....Unfortunatley,there were more problems,as the room had so much clutter,that the speaker was a shell of how I had heard it even at a show condition...where it was superbly driven by VAC tubes.In this home set up though,the soundstage was non existant.
My point being be very careful with these speakers,as they are literally a microscope on the rest of the system.They happen to be "that good"!It is nice to get one's money's worth,so be careful,which I'm sure you are qualified to do-:)
I assume the V-2 would certainly add more bass,and the need for a redundant sub would not be an issue.It is not an issue with the Mini either(as that speaker can sound superb)but make sure to give either of these speakers what they "deserve".
Good luck |
I must agree holeheartedly with "Roypan",about attempting to mate a sub with a world class design like the Mini.The Mini,Imo,is simply way too fast for any sub.
I had a Rel Stentor with a sealed high end Avalon design.It was obviously "no Mini"(not much is)but in all honesty I could never get the combo to match seamlessly.I got a very close match,but if I were to do it again,I'd definitely run solo.No sub needed with the Mini,especially if the room is not very large.
I believe(and have seen this very often) that whenever one gets a sub bass system,they go a bit "woof crazy",and are compelled to "think" the sudden abundance of bass is more accurate,when in reality it is slower and more plodding.....This is a common thing,and just human nature,so one is not to blame here...but...
usually the sub eventually gets sold down the road,and a more full range design is called for.
We all go through this,from time to time.In any event,the Mini goes down "damn deep" if set up and driven "well",but that is another issue altogether. |
