M-Lores or Aon 3: bass/imaging


Ok, yet another thread along the lines of "which speakers should I buy?" (I've read a few thousand of them lately). But my question is really coming from the fact that I've never owned floor-standers before. So I'm sort of paralyzed by the fact that I like the idea of the Tekton Mini-Lores--straight-ahead good design--but I can't audition them. "Money back" -$120 total shipping isn't my idea of money back, on my salary... On the other side of the ring currently are the Golden Ear Aons, which claim the same 38Hz bass response. So, opinions and experiences from people with a deeper background with both kinds of speakers is welcome. If not experience with these models, then experience with the underlying technologies. I'm not sure whether or not conventional wisdom regarding floorstanders vs. bookshelves applies in 2013 with these designs.

Context:
1) I'm running a class-D (solid-state-sounding Icepower) amp, and like it a lot. My listening level is only about 82dB at distance, slow-weighted peaks on an SPL meter. So no need to shake the house. Still, 87dB sensitivity seems a good minimum to be safe. This makes some contenders marginal (Dynaudio, Kef, PSB, Ascend). It suggests Tekton and Golden Ear, in particular, although I'm mainly drawn to both for their bass response spec and other design features.
2) This system will be 2-channel music only. A main goal is to switch the subwoofer off for good, since I've never liked the amount of fiddling I've had to do and haven't ever been entirely comfortable with the result.
3) I'm a sucker for a vast sound stage and good imaging, not too far back (my current Axiom M2v2 speakers put the sound stage someplace way back in the neighbor's house). I also tend to be analytical in most things.
4. Low-E on a bass guitar is about 41Hz, I've read, so this is a good target for the bass freq I'm looking to nail. I want it defined and balanced, not accentuated. But I don't want it just "implied" through harmonics (or else the sub stays on).
5. I've always put on headphones when I want to hear detail, having never owned really top-shelf speakers. I can still do that if I get something really fun from the speakers as a trade off for less detail.

Questions:
1) Reading between the lines, it seems like bass response on floor-standers is reported honestly, while on bookshelves a "38Hz" rating or the like seems really to mean roll off below 60Hz. Is that basically how it goes? E.g., Mini-lores will be flat at 38Hz while Golden Ear Aon 3 would be (to make up a number) like -9dB at 38Hz? The Aons seem to rely on wall reflections to get that bass to you, which might be perfectly fine.
2) Both imaging and air-moving bass are about driver size--or so I've read, and it makes obvious sense. Aon 3 claims 7" mid-range driver; Mini-Lore = 8" wideband driver. Seems pretty close... Comments on either or both of these speakers, based either on personal experience or informed supposition? "They" say the mini-lores are "not the most resolving speaker" etc. Hedge, hedge. Do they stack up to the imaging capabilities of smaller good bookshelves or not?

Note that for the mini-lores, I would need to do vineers and/or grills, so it'll be the same price essentially as the Aon 3s.
That's the pricepoint I'm comfortable with.

I've also auditioned the Sjofn "(The Clue)" speakers, and found them to be terrific as a pro tool, but perhaps actually too detailed and too finicky for a room not furnished around them. I'm still considering them, though. Other than the Clues, I've really never heard outstanding speakers in-depth. I have the Axioms noted above, plus Boston Acoustics A40s from 1986, still in service. That's pretty much my speaker-buying history. I can audition the Golden Ears, but it will be a day trip so won't be doing it lightly. Again, no way to hear the Tektons, but I feel pretty confident about them except for the question mark about possibly lesser imaging (versus the Aons lesser bass?). Thanks in advance for opinions and experiences. I guess this post appears to lean toward the Tektons, but in fact the GEs fit the room better, so I'm still very much open, including being open to not buying anything.
adlevision
Adlevision,

Man, I'm really feeling for you and don't envy where you are. Picking speakers sucks, because you're always second guessing yourself.

Although my opinion on the mLores is probably next to meaningless, since I've never owned them, it just seems to me that they should have been a bookshelf. They aren't tall enough to be a real floor stander and they're too tall to put on stands. If I had to deal with leaning them back, I'd probably just make some very short tables for them to stand on so that I would get a more linear dispersion from them.

It just seems to me that tilting them backwards would make for a very narrow listening position.

Of the other speakers that you mentioned, I've owned the Studio 10/20s. Personally, I like the 10s better. I thought they had a better mid range, but the 20s low a bit lower and play louder. Still, if you are looking at putting them on stands and are interested in Paradigm, I'd be looking for a pair of Studio 40 v3. The 10/20s are good, but always thought they did better with home theatre than music. The 40s, on the other hand, are very musical with a full sound. The 40s are very substantial too, at around 40lbs each.

I've also had experience with Dynaudio. The Dyn 2/6 and the Excite X12. Both good speakers in the sense that neither did anything that brought attention to it, which is good. The Monitor Audio RX1 is also an excellent speaker.

Honestly, though, given the amount of space that you have, I think that you could probably go a tad larger on the stand mounters without running into placement issues. All of those that you've mentioned are on the small side.

Have you taken a look in the classified here?
I have Aon 3's driven by Parasound/Marantz combo. Aon 3's have very good bass, slightly full mids and DELICATE treble. You can hear all the minute sounds but they are delicate. And also you need lot of power to really shine Aons. With my Naim 5i-2, Aon's were kind of dull sounding without much bass.
Have fun.
For the benefit of people like me who Google into the middle of threads, I thought I'd record my impressions of my speaker comparisons. I'm a newbie compared to most members here, so this is mainly intended for the Googleverse, as well as it just acting as my own scratchpad. I'm not going to be concise at all, nor do I claim special expertise.

I don't have a lot of experience with audiophile-grade gear. Even so, in the end I've been puzzled by the level of superlatives about some of the speakers in the subject line and in general. "You could hear the slight distortion on Nora Jones' voice through these speakers"... This is a surprise? It's always been there on headphones or even on my $330 Axiom M2s... "soundstage extended well behind the speakers and filled the wall" ...Again, my little, much-maligned Axioms do that, too, and I've just always been able to place instruments in space and hear the pluck of strings, resonance of the guitar body, etc., on my systems. That was what I was calling "mid-fi," since I was using (good) budget speakers and a (good) budget sub and (good) budget class-D Icepower amp. So, after reading all that the Webby Web has to offer on the Aon 3s and Excite X-12s, I was deflated to find them better, yeah, but still in the same general league as what I've been hearing from the cheap seats. That's a note for newbies like me about realistic expectations and the law of diminishing returns, which is very steep on audio gear. Anyway, here are impressions., plus a review of the Sjofn "(The Clue)" speakers.

In the hi-fi store, source was a NAD SS amp, 50wpc. Rugs on the walls in a 13x13 or so room, no furniture other than the chair. Speakers maybe 7 feet apart. My own listening room, by contrast, is about as "live" as it can get, and I'm so accustomed to it that I felt somewhat closed-in with those covered walls. It's where all echoes go to die. So that affected my impressions negatively, and I found myself leaning forward to see if details were present, which I never could really tell in that room. I guess I live by reflected waves.

Tracks: In addition to the ubiquitous Nora Jones _Come Away With Me_ (poor Nora: she sooo wants to move on, much less be reduced to a demo disc...), I have found two other tracks to really give speakers a litinus test for bass. First is the MoFi Bob Marley Exodus, the track "Natural Mystic." It can make any woofer quiver in fear at high volume, and I did that with all speakers involved, but only the Aon 2 completely broke down at 80dB or so. This track is also great for assessing sound staging and high-hats. Second is "Caravan" as clobbered by Cuban pianist Chucho Valdez, where there is absolutely phrenetic hand drumming from left and right channels throughout the track, plus a drum kit a bit back in the center. Sociopathic piano runs cover the rest of the soundstage throughout the track, which never lets up. Chucho will tell you immediately about soundstage depth and transient response.

Golden Ear Aon 2. They couldn't even FIND the bass notes on "Natural Mystic." Muddy mess. They were also placed too close together for me (maybe 5 or 6 ft). I think anyone would need a crossover to a sub with these, but none of my amps have a crossover, so I'd not be able to lighten the load on the Aons. Out they go, although the same good qualities in the upper range should be the same as noted below for the 3s.

Aon 3. We moved these a bit further apart. Instant vast improvement over the 2s. I could relax a bit. Not just the bass, but everything was more defined. People say the smaller 2s image better, but that wasn't my experience at all--which is why I point out that they were moved further apart. I didn't bother to try the 2s again in the same position. The folded-ribbon tweater is definitely special. It was very airy. More than I think a traditional tweater could do, really. "Delicate" is indeed a good description. It's a different sound. But I also want to use the word "diffuse" here. And, since "thin-sounding" is an insult, I guess this is what people mean by a "lean" sound. The mid-range was present but didn't really shine for me. Sound stage had terrific depth/breadth but was a little further back than I am wanting. Now I also understand what people mean by "front row" versus "farther back in the audience" (see below on this). Moving slightly to the left/right did move the center of the image, too, but it wasn't unfocused. Bass is surprising from a speaker of this size, but it's not THAT remarkable and there's no "thud," perhaps contributing to my overall impression that the speakers sound a bit light (e.g., like bookshelves) or diffuse. I would really need to bring them home on demo to hear them in my very different room. I guess their sound is statuesque and graceful, whereas maybe what I was wanting was a good solid apple-bosomed Dutch girl. Oh, where might I find one of those?

DynAudio Excite X-12. "Yoooo-hoooo! Hier I am standing!" Instantly, my ears lit up. ...No, I mean literally : it's a condition I have, and I'm very sensitive about it, so shut up. The Excites have a very different sound than the Aons. Much warmer and fuller in the mid-range. No, the tweater doesn't have that air of the ribbon, but it's a darn fine tweater, and it's the sound we're all used to. Silk, so there's none of the ring of the aluminum tweater present in my Axioms. Otherwise, I'd say it has a strong family resemblance to the Axioms, only much better at the same things. Soundstage was more forward than the Aons, but still doesn't come in front of the speakers. I immediately liked them better than the Aons tonally, but flipped back to the Aon 3s to be certain. In fact, they're just too different to really have a favorite, though. The Aons are a less-familiar sound. I can't really describe the Excites except by repeating myself: warm, full-bodied, good solid bottom, very very sweet and smooth up top. "Yooo-hoooo, I am vaiting...."

What surprised me most about the Excites is that the bass is equivalent, to me, to the Aon 3s. The Aons were about 1' from the back wall and, in accordance with the manual, had lots of space to the side walls. I actually think these speakers might sound fuller maybe 18" from the walls, so that's a factor. The Excites continued to sound more full-bodied even at the low end. My only real conclusion, though, is that the 38Hz bragging rights of the Aon 3 vs. the 60Hz of the Excites may be more about room-coupling or liberal vs. conservative reporting (sorry to bring politics into it). Maybe the Aons technically go lower, while the Excites are fuller?

Although both the Aon 3 and Excite X-12 deliver enough bass for music, neither one "punched" the bass during my listen. It was just "there." I thought this was all I needed, but seems like it might not be. Pretty well-defined, but the Aons, especially, sounded like they were on the edge with Bob Marley. The way I'm phrasing it is probably a function of the way their bass has been oohed over so much, so they do remain impressive for bookshelves. Even though the thing that made me start shopping in the first place was mainly the desire to get rid of my sub, though, I don't think I would want to do so with either speaker, even if I might leave it off for 70% of my listening.

One more speaker to discuss.

Sjofn (The Clue) speakers, aka Sjofn (yes, this is my really silly name) speakers. Much less has been written about these, and most of that from audio shows; but, I was fortunate enough to have an owner, acting as the agent of Sjofn, bring his speakers over to my house to play for a couple of hours several weeks before I headed to hear the other speakers. These speakers are designed for placement within 2" (that's INCHES) from the front wall, and to sit on 20-24" stands. They're roughly in the same size class as the Aon 3s, but narrower, with a glossy finish and front bass port. Totally uninteresting appearance, but at least it doesn't slice off your light sabering hand and then stand over you saying "Who's your daddy?" (lookin' at you, Aon). The speakers also project a field in which the laws of physics no longer apply, by the way. The 5.5" wideband driver has a 4" active area surrounded by... a thingie. Ok, I don't understand speaker designs.
The Clues use room coupling to accomplish everything, so placement is all-important. We quickly realized, for example, that these speakers hate, hate, hate to be placed against windows: the top-end became painfully bright. Putting custom acoustic tiles behind them--by which, I mean a dog bed and a pillow--deadened the ring at the top end but left the speakers sounding dead, period. Rotating them so that there was basically too much space behind one speaker and a filing cabinet behind the other turned out to be the best we could do in my room as currently arranged. Here are the results.
The bomb has dropped! Suddenly, you are counting Nora's nosehairs (none, I hope). You can hear the bass player's repressed subconscious. Until this moment, you thought Brubeck's Time Out was a fabulous example of a DSD transfer. Now, you can only think of the limitations of microphone technology in 1959. These speakers are an x-ray machine for your amplifier and recordings. Hyperbole aside (if that's indeed what those remarks were), I discovered that my high-backed leather recliner (my listening position) actually distorted the sound because of slap reflecting off of it. THAT's how room-coupled and detailed these things are. Your room IS the speaker cabinet. Tune it, and it's incredible. These speakers really seemed like they were in a higher class than the others.
Oh, and bass... The reason I noted the two tracks at the beginning of this uber-post was because the Cluues didn't just reproduce the notes, they delivered a compression wave that arrived with a satisfying "thunk" on kick drum hitsand really filled the room with the bassline on "Natural Mystic," although I was able to make one of the woofers fart louder than mi dear ol' Da when pushed above 85dB or so. No way I would use a subwoofer with these.
The soundstage is further forward than I've ever heard--too far, really, but it's addictive. According to headphones and every other speaker, the drum kit on "Caravan" is supposed to be a bit behind the rest of the instruments, but here it's brought almost in line with the hand drums. There's still good depth, but it does seem a little unnatural. On the other hand, the track was absolutely gripping. Every drum hit was as much a shock as it would be in the front row live. In fact, for all jazz tracks, I found myself unable to hit "stop."
For other genres, the sound was very good and really tight, but not necessarily better than competitors, maybe only because there were fewer dynamics to start with. Complex classical didn't quite blow me away, but everything was very fine and I don't listen to orchestral music enough to be preoccupied with sonics there. Except for jazz sounding better than I'd ever heard it (bebop, swing, vocal, pianos), I was, probably unfairly, a little let-down by my first taste of a $1000 speaker, in much the same way that I would experience later in the hi-fi store as described above. I turned on my Axioms after the Clues left and continued to like the Axioms very much, except for the chestiness I've been living with that occasionally pops up near the lower mid-range (probably a big bump 70Hz-100Hz, not present on any of the other speakers). No way as detailed, but sort of "classy" in a low-light wood-paneled restaurant kind of way, whereas the Clues are a perfectly evenly-lit lab. With the Clues, the recording and mastering engineers are band leaders. It should go without saying that this is often not what one wants, especially with any new "loudness war" victims, raising the question: how much 70s classic rock or 60s jazz audiophile disc-listening do I really want to do?. So, I think their main place is as a really first-rate pro tool. By the end of that first experience auditioning speakers, I'd pretty much decided that the Clues were a wonderful fling, but not worth divorcing the Axioms, which are good at making me dinner every night. Still, I would be too tempted if my room arrangement didn't pose special challenges for this speaker, because they really stand out against the Aons or the Excites.

The outcome: I just purchased JRembert's Excite X-12s from the classifieds. Least expensive option if I'm going to do anything. They're not going to play really loud on my amp, but good enough to provide 10dB or so of headroom. I'll leave the sub in place, and just enjoy much better of the same sound I've been used to. I'll still demo the Aon 3s at home when I get the chance, because who just has one stereo in the house?
Adle,

HAven't heard Sjofn (The Clue) speakers, but I would say your accounting of the Goldenear Aon3s and the Dynaudios is most consistent with my experiences with both to date.

A "good solid apple-bosomed Dutch girl"? Dynaudio is Danish. Close enough?
Mapman,
Yeah, I realized my mistake shortly after posting. Somehow "Danish girl" doesn't sound as funny to me, though, and I don't seem to be able to edit the post anyway...