Lyra or ZYX ?


I am on a look out for an upgrade to my Denon 103pro. Primary requirement is Drive, pace and timing along with natural flow. I know both Lyra and ZYX cartridges are known for good pace and timing but which of them sounds more natural ? I listen to both Patricia Barber and Beatles alike so I want a cartridge which has that natural flow to music not just emphasizing shortcomings.

The reason I chose ZYX and Lyra and not a warm Benz or Grado is because I am also looking for a detailed cartridge. Within my budget I can look at with ZYX R100 Yatra or Lyra Delos.

Please share your experiences.
pani

Showing 7 responses by dougdeacon

Pani,

That is indeed the purpose of the SB option. My suggestion as to tonearm weights assumed that your cartridge would have one. To my knowledge (and on my advice) the US distributor doesn't stock any ZYX cartridges without it (except perhaps the entry level Bloom). A ZYX without the SB would want an even heavier arm, like 22g+. Such arms are not common, and are almost unknown among today's designs.

***
In principle, I agree with Syntax agreeing with Dover. ;)

A tonearm faces a fearfully complex array of challenges and tasks.

The challenges include very precise motion management in an ever-changing and largely unpredictable, 3-D environment plus the management of randomly induced vibrations across the entire frequency spectrum.

Using only those highly chaotic inputs for guidance, the tonearm is tasked with holding the centerline of the cartridge precisely above the center of the groove (wherever it might be at any given moment) while maintaining a constant downward pressure. Good luck with that. It's like a 3-D tightrope walk on a constantly moving and jiggling rope. Oh, did I mention? The tightrope walker must keep his balance bar precisely perpendicular to the rope at every moment, even though the angle of the rope keeps changing... randomly!

Got all that? Now, whilst doing all the above the tonearm must also transmit the most delicate, low voltage signal your system ever sees, with no distortions, inaccuracies or induced changes of any kind. Good luck with that too.

A tonearm is the most difficult-to-engineer device in audio, which means it's the component best suited to screwing things up.

Put a great cartridge on a crap tonearm and you'll get crap, because most of the great things the cartridge drags out of the LP grooves will be damaged before they even reach your phono stage, if they reach it at all. Put an average cartridge on a great tonearm and you'll get fine music, because more of whatever the cartridge is capable of will reach the phono stage undamaged. This isn't empty theory. It's the explanation of what I've actually heard, many times. I've owned several crap tonearms, one decent tonearm and one really good tonearm and a bunch of cartridges. In every case, a good arm/cheap cartridge combo has stomped all over a cheap arm/good cartridge combo.

Among my analog toys I've got a $100 MM, a $100 vintage arm, a $4K LOMC and a $4K arm. Put the $100MM on the $4K arm and it sings and dances. It's a decent little cartridge and the arm lets it play its stuff. OTOH, put the $4K LOMC on the $100 arm and it shrieks and howls. The crappy arm just can't handle the tons of information from the highly revealing cartridge, so it produces disortions. Of course the best combo is the LOMC on the snazzy arm, obviously, but if I could only have one of those $4K components there's no question which I'd keep. The arm would stay.
Pani,

When discussing cartridges it's critical to know which tonearm will be used. No one can give reliable information about a cartridge without knowing that. It wouldn't hurt to mention the phono stage either.

Take those statements about how ZYX's don't rock with a grain of salt. Anyone who makes such simplistic claims without providing their system context lacks a certain breadth of experience. How well a Yatra or most other ZYX's rock depends to a great extent on the tonearm, particularly its effective mass. On an arm with an effective mass of 18g or a little above, a Yatra will rock the house while also providing natural detail and tonality. On lighter arms the singing detail will still be there but you will indeed get less rockin'. My guess is that those who claim ZYX's don't rock have only used tonearms of 15g effective mass or below, perhaps much below. The devil is in the details.

The best ZYX for rock/pop is the 4D, which rocks as well as any cartridge I've heard, even on an 11g TriPlanar. That's a different design from the R100 series and well beyond your price point, but it heartily disproves any foolish notion that "ZYX's don't rock". Read our review of the 4D (Atmos) beneath my signature for a discussion of why/how some ZYX's rock better than others.

I defer to Syntax on the Delos, which I'm unfamiliar with. He seems to know what he's talking about there, as usual.
The few times I've heard an SME (V) with ZYX (UNIverse) were not impressive. That arm seemed to smother most of what that cartridge can do.

How much that would apply to a 312 S2/Yatra combination is very debatable of course. Wildly different price and performance points.

With respect, Pierre1976's blanket recommendation would only be useful if he's actually heard every ZYX cartridge. I've probably heard more ZYX models than anyone save nakatsuka-san himself, but I'd never make a blanket statement like that. For one thing, several models are VERY different from the "typical" ZYX house souond. Love the enthusiasm though. ;)
According to various posts on the internet, the 3012 S2 had an eff. mass of 14g. From that perspective it's just massive enough to be viable, though ~18g would be better. Experience from someone who'd actually heard the combination would be better of course.

Mehran might surprise you about demoing. He's a very customer-friendly guy. Couldn't hurt to ask, he might have a used one lying about. Who knows?
Pani,

The only Lyra I've heard extensively enough to have a firm impression is the Olympos, a ~$10K model that's no longer made new. I've heard multiple samples of that cartridge in friends' systems and my own.

I could blab on but it wouldn't be very pertinent to your decision. Not only was the Olympos at very different price point from yours, every report I've heard (including from JCarr of Lyra himself) is that Lyra's new cartridges do not sound like the Olympos.

By reputation the new ones are fast and dynamic, perhaps on the cool and detailed side of neutral. But all that's just repeating what I've read, not anything I've heard. Barely worth even one grain of salt. I'd defer to Lyra owners for impressions of the Delos or any other current model.
I haven't heard a 3012 S2 (or any SME except the IV and V) but IF Dover's assessment is correct then I'd second his advice. In the whole scheme of things, a quality TT and tonearm are much more significant than a cartridge.

I can put many $100-200 MMs on my $10K rig and they sing like little angels. If I put costly LOMC's on my vintage rig they typically shriek like little devils.

Good reality check.
Very reasonable question, Pani. Having no familiarity with any SME arms except the VI and V, I defer to those who have.