LYRA DELOS CARTRIDGE TOO BRIGHT, THIN AND SHRILL SOUNDING

Fremer in that AnalogPlanet review above mis-typed some of the spec info for the Delos, particularly the loading range. Here are the specs directly from the Lyra website:
http://www.lyraconnoisseur.com/Products/Products_Analog/Delos/delos3.html
Specifications for LYRA DELOS:

• Designer : Jonathan Carr
• Builder : Yoshinori Mishima (final build, testing), Akiko Ishiyama (primary build)
• Type : Medium weight, medium compliance, low-impedance moving coil cartridge
  
• Stylus: Namiki microridge line-contact nude diamond stylus (2.5um x 75um), surface-mounted
  
• Cantilever system: Solid boron rod with short one-point wire suspension, directly mounted into cartridge body
  
• Coils: 3-layer deep, 6N high-purity copper, square-shaped high-purity iron former, 6.3ohm self-impedance, 9.5uH inductance
  
• Output voltage: 0.6mV@5cm/sec., zero to peak, 45 degrees (CBS test record, other test records may alter results)
• Frequency range: 10Hz ~ 50kHz
  
• Channel separation: 30dB or better at 1kHz
  
• Compliance: Approx. 12 x 10-6cm/dyne at 100Hz
  
• Vertical tracking angle: 20 degrees
  
• Cartridge body: One-piece machining from solid 6063 aluminum billet, partially non-parallel shaping, body threaded directly for mounting screws
  
• Cartridge mounting screws: 2.6mm 0.45 pitch JIS standard
  
• Distance from mounting holes to stylus tip: 9.5mm
  
• Cartridge weight (without stylus cover): 7.3g
  
• Recommended tracking force: 1.7g ~ 1.8g (1.75g preferred)
  

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• Recommended load directly into MC phono input: 97.6ohm ~ 806ohm (determine by listening, or follow detailed guidelines in user manual)
  

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• Recommended load via step-up transformer: 5 ~15ohm (step-up transformer's output must be connected to 10kohm ~ 47kohm MM-level RIAA input, preferably via short, low-capacitance cable)
  
• Recommended tonearms: High-quality pivoted or linear (tangential) tonearms with rigid bearing(s), adjustable anti-skating force, preferably VTA adjustment

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I'm no expert here and only just recently upgraded my phono preamp to one that allows a wider range of loading options for my Lyras. I loved what I was hearing before, but love what I hear now far more. Loading really has a lot of impact on the sound as does VTA. The rest are important -- getting the VTF right, for example -- but I've found loading and VTA have the most effect on how the carts sound.

Let me be second in line for the Delos. I will absolutely buy it for $500 right now if @phill55 falls through. Please. There's no reason for you to put up with that POS cart. I guess I could put up with it for a little while. OK, $750 because I'm doing you a favor. I hate seeing this kind of disappointment among audiophiles. It's too sad for me to take. Fewer than 250 hours? OK, $850 then, just because I'm feeling charitable. I have 5 Lyras and a sixth would help remove them from the market where they're doing all this damage. I don't know why I thought they sound so fantastic in my system when clearly I was so dead wrong. PM me with your PayPal address and let's put an end to the disappointment.

In all seriousness, if you get your Lyra, whatever model (I own / owned Helikon stereos and monos, Kleos stereos and monos and an Atlas) dialed in correctly you will be rewarded hugely.

Having said that, alignment, VTF and VTA need careful attention. Small adjustments in any of those parameters are audible to my ears. Not everyone is up to that attention to detail. I am because I flat love what I hear. Having said that, I have complimentary synergy at work in my system. Lyras fit the ticket. They might not with a system already tending to bright.

Some important parameters to remember with the Delos:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/lyra-delos-moving-coil-cartridge

"As with any line contact type stylus, correct VTA/SRA is critical to optimizing performance so a VTA adjustable tonearm is recommended if not mandatory. Compliance is approximately 12x10cm/dyne at 100Hz. Recommended tracking force has a narrow window of 1.7g—1.8, with 1.75 “preferred.” Recommended loading is between 91ohms and 47kOhms determined by listening. VTA is 20 degrees, which Lyra says is achieved with the arm parallel to the record surface. As with other Lyras, the generator is integral to the body as opposed to being a completed mechanism inserted into a body. The result is better mechanical grounding, energy transfer and inherently correct alignment of the generator and body.

You can determine the “mathematically correct” loading according to Carr’s instructions by determining the total capacitance between the Delos and the phono stage. While the ultra low inductance of moving coil cartridges makes capacitive loading far less critical than it is with MM cartridges, there remains a relationship between capacitance, load value, bandwidth and the amplitude of the ultrasonic resonance.

Usually though, a setting of 10X the internal impedance is a good starting point, which is why Lyra species 91 ohms as the low, which is just above 10X the Delos’ 8.2 ohm impedance. According to the instructions if your cable’s capacitance is 100pF per meter, for instance, loading at 390 ohms will suppress the peak to 3dB while 200 ohms will suppress it to 0 at the expense of slightly poorer phase response and reduced dynamics. I went with 500 ohms but listened at 100 ohms as well, which is where I preferred it."

I'm not sure about deleting the thread. I think there are lotsa lessons in here.

It's clear plenty of posters are familiar with Lyra and immediately knew something was very amiss with the OP's original take -- thus all the mocking and derision and offers to buy the cart "right now."

Thankfully, both for the poster and for Mr. Carr and his excellent designs, doing what we knew was the correct prescription -- i.e. getting the right phono pre and the right set up -- turned that "bright shrill cartridge" into the wonderful devices we Lyra fans know they are.

In any case, it seems all's well that ends well in this particular audio drama.

@pani 

You're probably right about new schools and old schools, but you can have both. I don't have a Delos, but I have a pair of Helikons, a pair of Kleos and an Atlas and when your system is working in synergy with the Lyras, you get wonderful tonal richness, flow and warmth AND outright resolution.

I have my Lyras on a VPI going into a Manley Chinook (which I loaded for the Atlas factoring in tonearm and phono cable capacitance), into a recently recapped Accuphase C-280L preamp and out to a recently recapped McIntosh MC-2300 and from there into a pair of recently recapped AR-9's (Teledyne 1978 ~ 1982). All solid state except for the Chinook and IMO it is fabulous. I do not feel like I am missing anything in the way of tonal richness or warmth and, of course, the Lyras extract details out of the records that I often never knew were there.

I've owned Shelter (but not that 7000), a Koetsu Rosewood Standard, a Dynavector XX-2 Mk I ... The Dynavector was the best of that lot, but when I got my first Helikon I knew I'd found home.

rushfan71,

Now that is interesting. I have one of these:

http://www.lyraconnoisseur.com/Products/Products_Analog/Erodion/erodion.html

I wonder if I set things up the way you do with your Bob's Devices unit I might experience something similar...

I've been using unipivots that came stock on my VPIs for...7 years at least and while I'm not qualified to talk about what the advantages/disadvantages over a gimbaled or knife-edge or univpivot, my Lyras have worked splendidly to my ears.

Now, having said that I understand how people can be really dissatisfied with too bright. I hate it myself especially with my aging ears. But I found, at least in my case, the balance of the system is what is the crucial factor. My whole system, or at least half of it (the power amp and the speakers) err to the warm side. 

The one "warm" cart I owned (a Koetsu) I found to be far too muffly and wooly for me.

Anyway, seems to me that every component has to be considered to get all these things mostly right. I tend to think most every modern speaker these days (saving some British models and a few others) tend toward bright and forward and if the cart is bright, the amps are analytical, etc., you'll be far to an extreme and that could be the problem people are having.