LP eccentricity, spindle hole center,The fix??????


Hi all,

I'm one of those audiophiles, 67 years of age, that wonders about the effect of the accuracy of the center hole. Some of the LPs I put on the TT have play due to a center hole that's punched out of round, too large or what ever.

I'm playing a record on a Denon 308 direct drive table using a system devised by a LJT Mfg in Canada to reduce eccentricity and help flatten warped records using a peripheral ring clamp in conjunction with a 1420 gram spindle clamp. The trio comes along with a cnc machined polycarbonate centering disc that straddles the record after the clamp ring is set registering on the outside diameter of the record. I can feel play regarding the center hole as I implement the OD centering device. I'll measure it tomorrow, just a few thousandths. The music sounds fine to my ears but I wonder what the relationship is to the record grooves, the outside diameter, and the center hole.

A while back a TT was made that had an extra arm that MEASURED THE ECCENTRICITY of the record and re centered the disc for play, it sells for big bucks if you can find one.

FINALLY, Your thoughts on the question?

regards, Ken Fritz
kftool

Showing 5 responses by t_bone

There was also the Nakamichi TX1000 (the CT's bigger brother I thought).

I believe it is more easily solved using a method like you describe, though that requires a 'virtual spindle' rather than a real one, and some kind of ranging apparatus. As you hint in your post, if physical and working off the outer edge of the disc as a reference, this only works if the stamping is done so that the outermost groove is equidistant (or actually, the 'appropriate distance' (because the appropriate distance should decrease linearly by the groove spacing over one revolution)) from the edge of the disc. If done based on the grooves (the ideal), that requires another ranging device measuring groove placement on the surface rather than either spindle or outer edge in order to set the records place on the mat. That sounds difficult.

On the face of it, the Nakamichi solution is actually somewhat elegant, because the timing and distance of the "swing" is perfectly regular and therefore easily programmable, and it is not very fast, so there is no 'hysteresis' involved in 'violent' direction changes (assuming overhang of zero - if overhang is not zero, it becomes a bit more complicated I think). If there were slits in the TT platter/mat which allowed laser ranging to the underside of the record with enough frequency, this could be set by the TT before the stylus touched the vinyl, otherwise it would have to be done based on the arm being mechanically sensitive to the swing.

I, for one, would be interested to see Dertonarm wade in...
Dertonarm,
For simplicity's sake, I agree that a 'minimum spindle' plus off-center adapter should work fine. For the sake of the search for perfection (such as in the thread about drive systems), you'd need a lot of them and a way to measure. The one 'problem' with this is that not all of our TTs have removable/interchangeable spindles.
Dertonarm,
I am not positive I understand the way kftool's existing clamp system works, but if I do understand correctly, it effectively does away with the spindle completely (after all, as long as the record is centered with a peripheral guide and a heavy weight in the center, and there is enough friction between the record and the material beneath, one does not actually need a spindle... and that would be a 4th way.

Though I agree that a mechanical way is possible, and the small center spindle method is probably the easiest to implement if starting from ground zero...
Ken, another question for you about the 308 you are using... do you go through the line-amp directly out to amp? or did you unplug the arm outs from the board and run those to an equalizer? (And if so, have you tried the line amp and phono stages inside? Any thoughts??

My original question about the arm was asked because while it was optimized for the 103, it would be easy to imagine wanting to try a different long arm.

You mentioned in another thread that you didn't appreciate the MDF and top plate. Are you going to try and re-plinth the whole thing?

And by the way, if you want a pair of monitor headphones for the headphone monitor plug-ins on the left, they are the Elega DR-631C and they are still making them (be sure to get the 631C (not another letter) 10k ohm type with the #110 jacks - the 110-end type jacks cost about 5% more than the regular type but they are the ones for broadcast use). If interested, let me know and I can help navigate in Japanese for you.