LP eccentricity, spindle hole center,The fix??????

Dear Kftool, dear T_bone, the best possible way to solve the problem with the notorious LP eccentricity should be a pure mechanical one and - most important - should go without any alternation on the given LP itself (widen the spindle hole etc. etc.). I think the way to go is to decrease the spindle diameter and provide a kind of adapter (or a small 3-4 unit set with different ex-center adapters) which balances the LP-eccentricity. I have done so in my fist TT design back in the early 1990ies. It works fabulous and without any alternation or harm to the LP physics (sometimes you want to sell a LP....... a wide center hole does not really add to the value...) . The procedure itself is a matter of 30 - 50 seconds. Even LPs with eccentricity up to 3 mm (which is a lot...) when played with this adapter were dead quiet center in play. The modification should be done at the TT's spindle - not at the LP. The Naka's TX-1000 does cure one problem with an extreme amount of work and technical (electronic) periphery - and opens up a few boxes of other problems by doing so. A friend of mine just had a Nakamichi TX-1000 restored past week and put to work. More electronic than in any of our preamplifiers (which phono board....). But - it works. But so does the mechanical approach described here.

Dear T_bone, you know I like to look at TT and tonearm questions from the physical and geometrical point of view first.
Well - even if you use say 30 adapters with a step of 0.1mm each in compensated eccentricity, it will still be a fairly easy, cost-effective and very precise solve to the problem. We have 2 fixed points here - the spindle hole in the LP and the spindle of the TT.
To compensate the given eccentricity we have 3 options:
a) compensate at the platter itself and leave spindle and center hole alone = Nakamichi's approach (the whole platter compensates the eccentricity of the LP...... I see it working and I do not have a sense of "good solution" - the sound isn't anything to write home about either...)
b) widen the center hole to compensate eccentricity at the problems core itself - the LP (= modification of teh LP's spindle hole making it hard if not impossible to play the LP on any other turntable.. and results in a huge decrease in value. Certainly not the way to go for a collector of highly priced vintage vinyl..).
c) decrease spindle diameter to compensate eccentricity at the spindle. Solving the problem again at the very core of the problem. Modification can be done to almost any TT.

What I can say is that the method I described works very good in everyday handling.
You make a note for any specific eccentric LP and have an adapter with the specific compensation at hand in a few seconds.

There is no free lunch here.
Honestly - I can not see any other option aside from the 3 mentioned above.Do you have any idea?
Anyone else?

Dear T_bone, the system Kftool describes does provide pressure with the outer ring plus the center weight and further - by straddling the LP in its center - does provide something like a "material tension inherent pressure" by creating something like a "small convex bubble" at the center. This works great in providing high surface contact pressure over a very high percentage of the records surface. As the center weight is fairly heavy (approx. 3 lbs) there is enough down force provide without clamping to a spindle. Can't really tell from the description either whether the spindle was omitted.
Kftool - can you please clarify this point?

Dear Kftool, those 0.284 inch do equal the 7 mm in metric world. That is indeed the standard.
Thank you for setting this straight.

Dear all, that standard for the center hole was made in late 1940ies when the technical/mechanical standards for the microgroove longplaying record were set.
Those standards were precise numbers.
The problem is poor quality control, the ever increasing need for cutting production costs and too little care in the manufacturing process.
Companies like King Records / JVC Japan and several of the smaller dedicated record companies did always present LPs with very precise center holes. Today the LP-manufacturing is such a small segment of the audio/video market, that this (we...) and its (our..) needs are of no interest at all for the industry.

Dear Jlin, you are right - very often the two sides do differ in their eccentricity. In that case the "alignment" has to be done for each side individual.

Dear Raul, I agree. But the only part of the market we have SOME buying power is the specialised audiophile LP market. And even here - take the infamous Classic Records 200gr issues which were certainly plagued with pressing faults and warped samples - even with LPs which do ask some serious retail prices, we seldom get the excellent and careful pressing quality we ask for and deserve to get for our money.
I am collecting LPs since the early 1980ies.
There always were certain companies showing great care in what they released - excellent quality control. JVC Japan, King Records, for a long time DECCA and EMI (at least in their classical department...).
Today maybe we could put some "pressure" for quality on Classic Records, Speaker Corners etc.

You are right - we should try.
We all.
A small group is not enough.
We would need something (something like...) like the international boycott movement which eventually helped overcome apartheid in South Africa in the 1980ies/early 1990ies. That was a display of positive buyer's power (at least here in Europe).

I think the best way would be if Classic Records and all other audiophile record companies would just start having all their LPs pressed at JVC / Japan.
That would solve all our headaches.
I am in.

Dear raul, I don't know whether the old Microgroove Longplaying Record standards can be found anywhere on the web (but I believe so). I have them in the old printed papers of AE Anthology and Wireless World.

Dear Raul, dear all, - I think the best way to start would be a foundation here on Audiogon. A kind of "Audiogon quality record collectors society" (...which is just meant as an analoghy - not my propolsal for a name for this group or society...).

It was Raul's idea and I believe Raul should start and name this.
However I think if we can relate this in any way to Audiogon it will be a much wider public and therefor much more (positive) power.
That way it would be more promissing - the chance to get really some influence on the LP-manufacturers and distributors.

Dear Raul, just briefly as these days are crowed with real world work for me.
As for the LP STANDARDS.
These are the points (certainly not all - but the ones which came to mind first) - in no particular order - which I believe should serve among others as standards for longplaying records:

- perfect centricity (i.e. - derivation less than 0.1 mm)
- virgin vinyl with high percentage of high purity soot to lower groove friction (this was done in the very early 1960ies for some special copies for reviewers and radio stations) - this minimizes groove noise.
- constant control of pressing temperature to avoid pressing bubbles.
- "non stress" cool-down process to avoid wraping of LP.
- all records packed in VRP or Mofi or similar "rice paper" soft poly inner sleeves and fixed to avoid movement during shipment.
- precise center hole
- flat outer edge (no "rim") of LP - like LONDON FFSS "pan cake" pressings.
- LP weight between 180 and 220 gram max.
- standard value for run-out groove - a certain figure like 3/4 inch or such.

Let me know your mind and your ideas please.