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Yes agree, all dacs with digital domain volume should have this selectable output max voltage feature, then there’s no risk of "bit stripping" at all when using it direct if the volume is too low (<70%). Wadia I think did it first with 6 x different levels on their top line dacs https://ibb.co/30WXsC1 but with user adjustable links inside. But if this option isn't there with a dac, then same can be done using a $49 Schiit Sys as max preset between dac and poweramp. Cheers George |
Isn't 4.3V out on RCA from the dac against the normal specs/standards?
I thought they were supposed to be 2V on single ended outputs and 4V on balanced.
Yes the Redbook standard was 2v back in the 80's but since 2000 it's crept up now and the norm is 3v or more, which is good, as the higher the source voltage, the less end noise/hum/distortion there is because of less amplification needed down the line. Nelson Pass,
"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.
Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.
Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.
What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.
And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp." Cheers George |
Less source voltage will = even more hum/noise.
Inline attenuators to reduce the massive gain he has already will give impedance mismatch problems and more hum/noise.
Throwing a good dac aside for one with "at least" half if not less output to rectify this problem, is a sideways band aid fix with other problems that I've outlined.
As I said the amp with 0.7v for full output is the problem if the Supratek is to be kept
If you didn't know.
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Don’t think I was talking to you.
But yes OP, just responding to your little digging slur. Just go with Charles he’ll give all the "correct" none technical answers
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Thanks for everyone replying I this thread, even the grumpy ones that Supratek has very high gain Oh, ok! You would have read the 6 moons review and others, before, during, and after your Supratek purchase, where it states that. The "grumpy ones" don’t mind giving the correct answers when asked from those that ask questions as the title of a thread, that why they are here. I look forward to giving you some more correct technical help. Cheers George |
I tried Rothwell attenuators (after the pre), which did help with the noise but the sound lost life.
That is what an impedance mismatch will do
gryphongryph OP
, not dangerous but not great for sound quality either. Cheers George |
You sent him a picture of a speck .. https://eurostylesmallgoods.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Continental-Smoked-Speck-min.jpg Here is Six Moons thoughts on the Cabernet Maloney’s preamp philosophy, the Cabernet is a very high-gain device And if you sent him the sensitivity of your Belles SA 30 at 0.7v for max full clipped output, and Mick said fine?? somethings wrong somewhere, or he thought you had a source with as much output as a crystal set, virtually zero. Cheers George |
But still, my system sounds really great, that is not the problem, only more volume control is wished for 😜 Ok then get an amp that is 2v input sensitivity not .7v 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ Or get rid of the high gain Supratek! |
I find it humorous that the OP specifically ask for DAC recommendations, I find it humorous that some can’t tell the Primare dac’s (good dac btw) is not the problem, many give those voltages and more, mine gives 8v!!!. The problem if they bothered to investigate is the massive gain structure Supratek preamps have, known everywhere, good for low output vinyl systems. |
speakermaster
4.3volts is more than enough
Already tried to tell him that, will all the specs posted, (can’t see the forest for the trees) "tube addiction" his poweramp amp only needs 0.7v!!!!!!!!!!! in for full output Went on EBay and bought 1 pair of each (Harrison Labs and Rothwell) looking forward to try them out. The amount of gain reduction you’ll need to get with these Rothewell’s, either placed between source and Supratek or between Supratek and amp, are also going to give you impedance matching problems, in the process. Cheers George |
Try a $49 Schiit Sys as you can send it back
But at the moment you would have so much distortions/noise because your shunting >90% of the dacs signal down to ground, only then the re-amplify it again noise/distortion and all.
Cheers George |
@gryphongryph OP
Wow!! this setup needs a passive pre, if ever one did. Primare Dac30: 100ohm output impedance, 4.7v output. (it's a good dac) Belles SA 30 : 100kohm input impedance, and needs only 0.7v in for full output.!! Just get a Schiit Sys for $49 as cat_doorman said, get far better sound this way, more transparent, less noise, less distortion, better dynamics Sell the Supratek pocket the money and never look back Nelson Pass,
"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.
Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.
Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.
What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.
And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp." Cheers George |
