Loudspeakers have we really made that much progress since the 1930s?

Hi John,

      Even though what you post is correct. The arguments that you make are really out of context compared to the title of the thread that you have created... Yes, there has been huge advancements.  Yes the dome was invented around 1925, most of the technologies that we use were created between 1925 and 1930.

The Rice and Kellogg patents for the dome that your reference do not show a rim-driven, direct-radiator device designed for high frequencies, it wasn't until the late 1950's that the dome anywhere near how we know it started being used.... Rice and Kellogg experimented widely with all types of transducers.

There are too many to name above, but some excellent points made about advancements.  Maybe I mis took the original point. 

One of the best speakers that I had ever heard ... at least in high frequencies was the Hill Plasmatronic.  Not sure is Hill designed the plasma driver or if it was from the early days,  but there is a technology that I personally haven't seen before or since.

"The plasma driver can be traced to 1900 and William Duddles singing arc"

Hi John,  this is the quote from Wikipedia that you supplied when I commented about Plasma drivers... As I had said,  I've heard the Plasmatronics, but didn't know when they originated...

I looked up your William Duddles singing arc....

The singing Arc was a short created between two carbon filaments,  this arc was used as lighting and was poorly done.  It did have an effect of a tone output and was named the singing arc....its frequency was controlled by voltage. Duddles added an LC network trying to filter out the noise so that it would be accepted as a Lamp. With the LC networkvOn this Lamp Duddles found that he could somewhat control frequency.  It did not produce plasma in any way.  As far as they could get with this is that it could re produce the frequency matching of a keyboard and it was done by modulating the voltage of an Electronic arc supply... Fascinating read, but It had nothing to do with how Plasma has been used in a speaker in anyway and certainly did not require a Helium tank to operate.  The Hill Plasmatronics actually used a Helium tank to produce Plasma to play music....

When ever this was first produced,  I do consider this a "Break Through"

Of course, you may still show that it happened in 1906 or something.  I have no idea there.

Tim

Mercedes produced a vehicle in 1938 that produced 736 hp and ran speeds of 268 mph.  That proves cars have not improved..

In 1964 the SR71 was produced, this plane set the absolute speed record on the planet in the mid 70's.... so, I guess planes have not improved.

Did the SR71 have cloaking capabilities?  Klingons?  Hmmm

These analogies are the same... great stuff was introduced a long time ago,  but the improvements have been massive. 

Everything that we have had to be invented at some point... Show me anything like a Magico... Shoot,  show me a Bose! 

Point is well made that there haven't been many New INVENTIONS,  but the improvements have been astronomical! 

So,  patent a Microwave that plays incredible music..... Never mind, that's just for fat guys.

Heil is a folded ribbon, funny, I've got a pair from a pair of ESS from 1978 that I'm building a 12 inch 3 way with now also...

but I believe the first ribbon was from quad in the early to mid 50's. 

This whole thread has gotten out of hand to me... I can accept that something very old can still sound good,  but to put the idea forward that things have not progressed since 1930 is crazy!

You know,  I can still talk on my cell phone,  I guess phones aren't any better either.... Oh wait.  My phone is a better music source than anything that existed in 1930.... Nice computer too, oh and I love the camera on my phone, I don't think they had electronic calculators like this in 1930, gps on my phone is cool, did they have that in 1930? ....

yes, it is a fair analogy.  Phones existed then, but the technology innovations have been huge,  just like in Audio. 

Hi Mike & Al,

     I'm thinking back to the late 70's & early 80's.  We hand measured all our own drivers, we listened to each driver individually for beaming/dispersion characteristics, based upon the basics of each driver, we chose crossover slopes for the drivers character and to maximize phase and time alignment... Yes,  even then at least at Marcof, we practiced time and phase alignment.  We would then build the piece, listen extensively and make changes based upon our sessions.  It was quite a process. 

Today, as long as the measurements are correct,  I can run a program and know with a high degree of accuracy pretty dog on close what a speaker will sound like.... Its never far off like "wow, that fooled me"....

Yes, after listening  there is tweaking, but these days, it usually isn't much. The big deal is to understand what different slopes and combination of slopes sound like.  Looking at Frequency and phase charts carefully and then proper choice of slopes and frequency of crossover, you can come fairly close maintaining decent phase slopes using odd order crossovers,  its not always 6db per octave slopes required like so many believe that you must have. 

Ok,  a bit off subject, but I wanted to add to the earlier comments.

Tim

You are correct,  this shows a lot of experience in being rude.... That's the point... telling people that they don't count.... opinions without supporting experience is just noise.
Read through the post,  enough was said...

No one has said at all,  that there aren't very good systems from yesteryear, the entire argument that Johnk won't acknowledge is that there have been advancements and clear improvement. Everything that is any good was created in 1848. (Sarcasm) and only that vintage is better.  I pointed out a few inaccuracy's with some dates quoted. I agree that Big speakers that are well balanced is a great experience, the air moving, the big stage is a great experience.  I've never heard Shearer Horns,  John does have a ton of experience and I'm sure that they are great, I'd just like to see some others get credit where its due, but I have sat in from of many others. I recently did a fair amount of mods on old Altecs,  in the end, they were wonderful.  Without todays technology, they wouldn't have turned out like they did.  Ok,  there's my rant.