Looking to get TT

TWL, why do you think the Music Hall TTs are "warm" sounding?

Hint: my creature on steroids is neutral sounding...

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OK, some clarifications:

1) I have learned that phono stage is more important than TT. My next step is to send my phono preamp's outboard power supply to cryo treatment.

2) Digital doesn't sound that great because most people have mediocre power delivery/noise control measures. I have conquered noise in my system and digital is really something to be enjoyed. Analog is not superior in all respects. My goal is to keep analog and digital in balance...

3) Use digital as your reference for PRAT. Otherwise, you'll be prone to fall for a "magic" sound that has nothing to do with reality, especially with some moving coil designs. I find my modded Groovemaster MM cartridge more musically accurate than my Ortofon X5 MC.

4) My choice of TT is being marketed not to audiophiles, but to libraries and radio stations as a *transcription* TT. It is an accurate tool, not a spatial enhancer...

Tom, it's vibration (both internal and external). It gives that midbass and below "warm, beautiful sound"...

I tell you, I can walk on my springy floor and the creature is resting on an IKEA Lack tabletop with its spiked screws and nothing happens--and I'm 250 lbs! The deck is neutral sounding. I talked to Kevin today and he says the creature becomes quieter and even more stable with the outboard power supply.

Got to go...

Ludicruous? I apologize for saying that vibration gives warmth to the Music Halls. It is actually the particle board, which magically vibrates at room temperature and gives that characteristic & beautiful "warm" sound...

Come on, Roni--use your head and think. Particle board sucks from a sonic standpoint. That's widely known knowledge in these forums. If those plinths were made out of Moca wood the sound would be clear and open. Maybe the molecules in Moca wood move slower!

Viridian, you are totally accurate by stating that my "opinions offer a genuinely different hirearchy on what is of sonic importance."

I want my digital and analog rigs to sound as close to each other as possible. I don't want my analog to sound warm, sluggish and artificially bloated in space. I don't want my digital to sound harsh and sterile either. So, how do I get them closer to each other? The first step is to get proper power delivery/noise control measures--especially for digital. Noise induces jitter in digital equipment, so much it's tragic. It has taken me over two years to conquer electrical noise. It's not easy.

When I went to purchase a new DAC I told Dusty Vawter that I had a modded 1200 and that I wanted it to be in balance with whatever DAC I purchased. After hearing what my analog rig was like (I use Monolithic phono pre), he said his Channel Islands DAC and my creature on steroids would be a great match. Analog does not have the low noise floor, dynamic range and perfect pitch of digital--digital lacks the smoothness, ease of presentation and delicate imaging. How do I make this happen? I need to start with a TT that offers speed and rotational stability plus neutral sound. Since I don't have a cost no object Rockford, I will have to mod and compensate for my TTs weaknesses. In this case, the tonearm and the noise floor. On the digital side, the Channel Islands DAC has a reputation for beign *musical* and very lenient on poorly recorded CDs--especially those from the early 1980's. It is one little gem.

I know what I'm doing and I have a goal...

With psychic power and primal intensity,

I finally read what you meant. You need to prove me wrong. Just pasting what I posted and declaring it ridiculous doesn't cut it. I can advance that I learned #1 from Dejan V. Veselinovic, one of Europe's most knowledgeable audio writers http://www.zero-distortion.com.

Question: "If your opinions are different from what is sonicly, important. Why do you make them here as if they have some sonic importance?"

What is different, in Viridian's words (and I totally agree) is the *hierarchy* of what is important, not whether something is important or not. Pecking order, in nautical English.

Quote: "After reading all of the above statements one can only conclude that you have never lived with a revealing Analog front-end, or you would not have these opinions."

Define revealling, please. Also, it is proper to use the first person, please ( "I"...can only conclude).

The person who started me on high end is a friend of our family and he always taught me (since I was 15) that what was important in a high end system was "resolution". As I learned more and more I found out that statement was erroneous. A high end system should be *musical*. Now I'm 40 and my system must be clean, musical and intimate (that's why the list price of my noise control rig is more than that of my audio gear--about $8K). This man always drooled cause I was "connected" to the music world and ALWAYS had the kick ass LPs. His Sota vacuum TT and flavor of the month arm and low output MC could pick up defects in my pressings, and that what he was actively listening for (he had downgraded from a Technics SP10, BTW). My cousin told me last year that he finally admitted to him he'd spent all these past 40 years listening to equipment. If he heard my rig he'd have a heart attack! When I took my little, $315/pr Yamaha NS-10M Studio and squared them against his $6K B&W 801's he almost had a heart attack! Oh, Mr. Klyne and Krell were doing the pre amp & power stages...and $100 a foot speaker wire feeding the juice.

Quote: "Now for the important question, how many Vertigo swirls do you have, and do you want to sell any."

I do not understand what you mean.

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If TWL agrees, I will take the creature on steroids on a road trip to Appalachia sometime next fall. How about that?

I lived in a log cabin--no electricity and w/ an outhouse next to the creek! Amenities? A Teres based audio system is spartan? Yeah--right.

Too bad Tom, I found out yesterday my client will not be up and running until Thanksgiving, give or take a few weeks. I only work about 12 hrs a week average nowadays. This week I'll work 50-60, but that's doing some unexpected repair work in my system. I had heard you were kind of a hermit. I understand, my high school was a Benedictian monastery!

I'm setting up a $6-7K system that will rival $25-30K ones* and that my creature on steroids fits in perfectly. Going into a multithousand dollar deck is out of the question and not worth it (because of the law of diminishing returns). I haven't "lived" with one, but I have been *with* them long enough--just like with women!

About the music: contrary to popular belief, most of my collection is not Latin (I am not that old). I have Jade Warrior, Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Pentangle, Gong, Tull, Renaissance, Anthony Phillips...how about that? As for Jazz, I start with a collection of 20+ Gato Barbieri albums...

*If you don't believe me try the Channel Islands Passive pre-amp ($249). I just got one last weekend. Will give $3-4K preamps a serious challenge. Dusty's goal is to have a $6K setup rival a $30K one--for real.

You need to read again..."I'm setting up a $6-7K system that will rival $25-30K ones".

Ah, now I understand why most people don't do well on the ASVAB...

The list price of my noise control rig is ~ $8K; the total system cost will end up being $6-7K. I got really good deals on the noise control stuff. Now that I'm more knowledgeable I could do it with more finesse and with less gear. I'll keep what I have--what the hell. Point is that power delivery/noise control is a priority. So is acoustic treatments and tuning. Just came from buying some huge and some smaller Kentia palms--they will be my diffusors in my future audio room. Photos will be taken by Lak and posted sometime in early fall...GW

About the Yamaha's--I just wanted to hear them with a *high resolution* setup. I never expected them to be so uncomfortably close to the 801's. As such, I have learned that high price does not guarantee value. Guess what my Proton dual mono amp did to my *highly reviewed* BRB 120--it smoked it. Made in Taiwan--right.

I have never heard the Sound Lab's, but given their type, size and shape it would be hard to find something that would be in the same league. Maybe the VMPS RM40 would seriously challenge them (especially with upgraded capacitors and cryo'ed circuit boards & Bybee filters) at least for the money. I have heard that those are the two large floor standing speakers to get...well, there's an array version of my Swans, too--they're awesome looking and totally impressive.

Dan Wright had a big laugh last Friday when I told him Quad electrostatics would melt if I played my junkie salsa through them...