Well said Rob. I have not a/b'd the various WE wire ga so I don't know the sound difference. I am sure there is as gauge matters and that is why all the cables sold have their own gauge recipe.
All I know is this 16ga makes the best sound I have heard in my home systems over the past 30 years. It makes wonderful signal wire in gear as well as crossover and internal speaker wire. Nothing I have heard is as good. I have used it all from the purest copper to all kinds of silver and solid core, but the WE is the best.
I pulled out very, very expensive Jupiter solid core silver & gold wire that Chris sold me special preferring the WE wire. I thought the Jupiter silver/gold was wonderful, but in the preamp the WE is better.
Jeff Day's blog was just updated with him sharing how this wire is now inside his speaker etc... And his comments mirror my experience 100%.
I will report back on the WE ICs made with 16ga as I am making them this week. I imagine they will sound great as all the gear I have uses the same wire as input and output signal wire internally.
Looking at the materials used there is no way this stuff should sound this wonderful and resolving. I am still shaking my head.
I have also found the $25 Green Cactus capacitors are every bit as musical as the caps we all spend $100's on. The last 6 months have been a wonderful learning experience and have thickened my wallet. |
Wow Jet! I am still debating if I should shield them. I do have some Belden tinned copper braided shield. Don't want them to sound closed in at all.
Interesting that they still keep changing! |
Ok Jet a built a set of WE ICs today. Here is my build. Switchcraft gold RCA connectors. I used one pole of 16g WE for positive and one for negative twisting over the length of the cable. Not a tight twist but a turn every 1.5 - 2 inches.
I then place a tinned copper braided shield with 85% coverage and soldered on both negative ends. The braid is made by Belden. I then placed clear heat shrink over the braid and finally a nice gold colored woven cloth outer jacket.
Burning in on my cheap shop system. |
Since I had the day off I also built a digital cable with the WE wire. I did not wait for burn in and just put it into my system. I have already reported the $45 Belden 8402 was as good as my Sablon Audio $650 cable. They were very close really. The Sablon does have better extension in the highs and more air. The Belden wins for overall musicality and "settle into the music" factor.
But wait because the WE 16ga wire is once again showing the more of it in your system the better the system sounds. Some kind of wonderful cumlitave effect that is even better then just using it as speaker cable.
I used two runs for positive and negative on my digital cable. Yeah, I went crazy and doubled it up for a digital cable! Living large today!
No shield this time. I did twist the positive runs together and did the same with the negative runs. I then twisted the double runs to finish the cable. I put a nice gold colored woven cloth jacket over the cable.
The sound with only 2 hours is just fantastic. The best of both worlds has now come together. The highs are open and extended and the musicality is outstanding. Big, rich and vibrant sounding. I sense the cable still needs to settle down a bit and smooth out. I am sure it will based on past experience.
I am looking forward to putting in the newly built WE16ga IC's now burning in on my shop system. |
Agree 100% with this reviewer ..... well said. For me these are far and away the best and certainly one of the very best cables available with personal preference always in play. Just amazing stuff for under $1.50 per foot.
Wonder if the reviewer doubled up on the runs as I found that helped the bass wonderfully. In terms of highs, I have never liked a cable that is too extended. Just too much of a good thing for my ears which are particularly sensitive to upper mids and treble. For the first time in my life my music is glare free for me. My ears heard glare with every other cable I have owned no matter what gear I have had. However the WE and Belden wire removed it. Oh my what a blessing for these ears. That is why they are the best to me. Zero glare combined with all the frequency extremes I hear in live unamplified music.
As Rob has said, some folks have different sonic priorities wanting highs that reach the sky etc....I no longer do as I found that type of sound to be aphile awarded, but in the end just sonically impressive, but musically blunted. |
Jet and others, I now have the WE ICs in my main rig after 30 hours of burn in. Please see my build notes a few posts back. They are not coming out. I decided to shield them with Belden tinned copper tube braiding soldered at BOTH ends and the sound is simply stunning. They sound very much like the Belden 8402, but a larger stage and tad more openness. I used the Switchcraft connectors also.
Thus far I am very pleased. My digital front end is totally glare free, smooth and engaging to the nth degree. I love the effortless presentation that is drenched in realism. Remember, I also have a WE 16ga digital cable built just recently.
I hope more of this wire becomes available soon so more can enjoy it.
Great posts and information shared by seasoned Agoners on this thread. I am interested in the results of the solid core WE ICs and Supra/WE comparison.
I have one set of Belden ICs with the rest of my non-power cord wire being WE16ga. The WE IC is used on my dac to preamp connection. Belden on the pre to amp. |
Thanks to Jetrexpro for being the first to try it! The best IC recipe with the WE16ga is interesting to me. Mine are shielded just like the Belden and thus far I love the results. |
Jet, Yeah me too! I did shield mine and thus far I love them. We will see what the future holds. I also used Switchcraft connectors. These little things do make a difference. I know connectors sound different and do impact the overall sound of a cable. I would rather just do away with all the RCA connectors/jacks and solder the IC directly to both components. Well we know that is not practical.
Maxima95 makes a great point. No connectors are best and they way I experience the WE wire. Not everyone can use bare wire however. |
The WE wire does indeed need more time to settle in as ICs. They sounded better at 35 hours then they do right now. A tad ragged and not as awe inspiring as yesterday. I will report back after 70 or so hours.
Can still hear portions of greatness, but not as effortless and beautiful as yesterday. Yesterday they were a dream, today they sound like good cables. More time is needed on them....... |
Ha! Jet, the cumulative impact of the WE stranded 16ga wire is just amazing. I placed a second and final IC set of WE ICs in this morning and all is great right now.
I find the WE ICs betters the Belden in stage expanse, realism, and top end openness. Not by a huge amount, but significant in my rig. The midrange has a tad more presence.
Like Mitch said this wire is an all time best buy for me. I only have 30 feet left. |
Rob, we will see what Mr. Day thinks of the WE ICs vs. Belden. Break in seems a little more unpredictable when this wire is used as an IC. Makes no sense to me? Well perhaps it is because the connectors are now in play? Can't be? Oh well, it just is.
Right now I am using a $400 DIY NOS dac for my front end and my sound system has reached new heights. I have a used Lector Hybrid amp that cost me $950 and combined with the $400 dac, my system is better than ever. I sold all my expensive cable also! This darn wire has been a game changer for my ears. Yes, it elevates the gear used with it. At least it has in my experience. |
Break-in is something real and I have never understood why some would argue different. I have tinnitus and am very sensitive to upper mids and highs. My ears are set off with the wrong combo wether a stereo or live music. My ears and tinnitus react differently with the same recording at the same volume as cables change with burn in. This is an objective reality based on experience. This is a physical not physiological phenomenon. Any bit of glare or edge in the critical upper mids and highs sets my ears to ringing and is just uncomfortable for me to listen to for long periods of time.
The same wire that forces me to turn the system off can with burn-in cause me to turn up the volume and enjoy for long periods of time.
Yes, some break-in is for the worse and the end result was not as good as the beginning or mid point. I found that to be true for some Vishay Z Foil resistors recently.
I have also experienced that moving cables in and out of a system, bending, turning etc...requires some time for re-settling in. I found this particularly true for solid core power cables. |
All good points and this is a great thread. The WE wire is different however from other wire and a value of immense proportions. Salectric, I am confident a double run as speaker cables with proper run in time will please you. I have no doubt based on your system and gear.
After burn in and a double run, if you still don't like them, then I will eat a plate of shepards pie which is the most awful tasting dish in the world to me :) I respect your opinion and hope to soon read you have tried them with proper burn in. |
Wow.... Good to see Jim Smith is open minded. I will report on the WE IC break in tonight. They have another 48 hours on them now. We will see. |
Well mine started off a little brittle up top, but with great promise. Tonight after some 100 hours the sound is a tad dull and flat. I will let it play another 50 hours or do.
Strange how this did not happen on the speaker cables. |
I struggled with wether to shield or not. Decided to build them like the great sounding Belden we all liked. Felt the internal WE wire would simply sound better and result in a cable with the Belden sound only better!
The other reason is my 845 amp had a buzz that went away the moment I hooked up the shielded Belden cable. I did not expect that and was was pleased with the dead quite drivers! That was enough for me to know shielding can make a difference and quiet down system noise.
If the cable stays in the dull sounding stage I will then remove the shield. I will give them more burn in time first. |
Some folks have written that shielding or any material other than natural fibers like cotton or silk will ruin the sound. A gentleman on the Day blog shared this same feeling stating the WE wire sounds so good because of the natural fibers used to make the wire....nothing artificial.
The problem is the WE wire does have a layer of rubber like material over the wire and just under the cloth. This layer is not made of natural fibers.
The Belden cable is not covered in natural fibers and sounds fantastic. I think the notion that copper braiding and unnatural wire coverings negatively impact the sound is speculation at best. Seems to me, like all things audio, it just depends on the build and many other factors. No universals here. |
Salectric, I thought the very same thing.
Mikirob, that poster on Jeff's site missed the fact that the WE wire does indeed have a rubber like shield in addition to the natural fibers. The rubber like material is actually on the wire before the cloth.
We need you almarg! |
Thanks Al! Very well done. Yes, it did remove a ground loop issue that only this amp seemed to have in my system. It was indeed a 60 htz hum through the woofers! I have had this same issue with other tubes amps and love the fact that a shielded cable removes this potential nagging issue.
I agree 100% with the un-shielded cable giving the perception of more air and top end extension if you will, when perhaps it is really high frequency noise. The absence of noise is a startling thing in a stereo system and something our ears have to get used to. Very interesting point/speculation Al.
I do notice I can turn up the volume with these shielded cables with no negative impact on my tinnitus. I cannot claim the same thing for past un-shielded cables of both copper and silver variety. |
Charles, I will build a nude set of WE IC's and compare once it has fully burned it. I will use this one between my dac and preamp.
It may react differently in my system vs. another's based on Al's comments above. |
Jet & others, well the WE ICs sound stunningly beautiful today. Jet, as I read your comments about when the WE ICs are at their burn-in best, I feel your excitement and pleasure.
I am there right now. Right now as I listen. I know others have used the word real, but real is the best word. The music, the singers, all sound so real. Real real. It's as if I am hearing the songs live, not the recordings I am used to. The lyrics/words seems to extend longer with far more articulation, emotion, breath, intention....oh the vocals just seem more human and the music so much more intentional and real. I am hearing every single voice inflection in such a beautiful and human manner. Not a stereo, but humans are right here with me with the delicate nuance of every syllable so evident and real. Human.
Like you Jet, I am mesmerized by the realness of this sonic experience. No, the shield is staying on! I bet it sounds very much the same as your nude ones Jet.
This WE wire is arresting in aggregate in my system. I would sell any piece in my system before letting go of this wire. Ha! That is truth. |
As an FYI, I am at some 130 hours. I pray they stay right here:) |
Doing some late night listening on monoblock SET 300b amps tonight. I have been going back and forth between the shielded WE ICs I built vs the Belden. After some extended listening it is quite clear to me the WE IC is the better IC in my system on two different amps.
To summarize the differences I would say the WE is more open, resolving and reaches higher for sure. The WE is more full bodied and vivid with a bigger stage. The WE presents music with more dynamics and improved musicality. In contrast the Belden sounds a tad closed in and dark up top.
The Belden is very quiet and I like the solidity of the sound if you will. It has a nice ease and is still a great IC.
I did build a set of WE ICs without any shield....just nude and not jacketed at all. I put them in after about 20 hours of burn in and they were way to bright. They sounded brighter than my shielded version ever sounded. I bet they end up brighter in the end. We will see. |
Jet, look at Jeff Day's blog/thread on the WE IC's as there is a link to "Take Five Audio" for Belden braided tube shielding. They offer various sizes. I used 1/4-1/3 inch as 1/2 inch would be too big. It does expand a little. Hard to work with this stuff. I soldered a 14 gauge solid core copper wire to the tip of the twisted runs and carefully pulled the twisted cable through the braided tubing. Only way to really do it.
I then covered the braid with heat shrink tubing as the braid is conductive as you know. I then covered the braid with cloth.
This was somewhat difficult and time consuming for me.
Yes, the shieded WE version is in between the nude WE cable and Belden in terms of sonic personality. I found it not quite as forgiving as the Belden and not quite as "bright" as the nude. Good middle ground for me anyway. |
Jet, look at the barrel that fits over the cable on the Switchcraft connector. The far end, end opposite the RCA, this will show you how wide you can go on the shield. You would never slide this barrel over 1/2 inch braiding. It was hard for me to slide, but I got it done even with a layer of heat shrink over the braid. I was an effort!
You could skip the barrels and just use a nice and thick heavy duty glue lined heat shrink for a collar. I did that on my digital cable as they were made with two runs per pole and the barrel would not fit over it. Once the glue sets and dries you have a very strong and safe cable! No,I won't mod these ever again after this. |
Mitch2, yes I saw those Cryo 8402's and I want to buy some, but......oh my! |
Waiting on your comparison Jet. I like the WE IC's and the Belden is now back up. I use a nude set with a shielded set also. Perfect combo! |
Well, RCA connectors do not conform to the "strict" 75 ohm adherence that we read about as being so important in digital. We also read to never use twisted wire as a digital cable, but my Sablon is twisted wire, not coax, and it sounded far better then the true coax cables I had tried before.
I guess there are several camps of thought regarding digital cable builds and what is ideal. I let my ears tell me, but it is somewhat confusing that the math would suggest to not use twisted wire or 50 ohm, but the ears say otherwise? Help? |
I am using WE10 gauge stranded cable now for speaker cable. I like it a tad more than the WE16. I use the WE16 for ICs, but for best results they should be shielded. I liked the shielded WE16 quite a bit more than the Belden. The Belden is very good in my system however. |
Volley, very slight difference in my rig. Not a big difference. Just a tad more scale and increased stage size. Tad more fullness in the bass. That's really it.
My rig is very resolving and a little more weight or bass body was good for my system. |
Signature8. I say break them in on music. Even better, your favorite music! I just have a cheapo second system in my work room that I use to run in cables. $20 set of speakers from Goodwill, $25 Sony CD player, and an old receiver! |
The WE wire is the very best value in all audio...period. I am thankful for it and many other more important things this Christmas. Merry Christmas!
|
Mikirob, good for you! Now we need Duelund to starting making thicker options for speaker and power cables. I am using the wire for the signal path in my tube amps.
|
Ok guys I have been enjoying my Western Electric NOS wire greatly. I use 10 gauge for both speaker and power cables. I tried the new Duelund match of the 16 gauge WE stranded/tinned wire and am very impressed. They better the Belden ic's pretty easily really.
They better the 16 gauge WE wire also. Best ic's I have ever built. Great wire for unshielded ic's!
Parts Connextion sells the new Duelund wire. Special stuff!.
|
mitch2, the new Duelund stranded and tinned wire makes a better sounding IC than the WE16. I wish Duelund would make a 10 gauge version of it!
It is more dynamic, resolving, and extended while still retaining that special musical tone of the WE16. I did not shield the IC's and used the Canare f10 rca connectors per advice I learned from this thread. Total cost of my ICs is some $50 and I know they sound better than $2,000 IC's! |
|
mitch2, my power cord only uses one 10 gauge run, not two. Never tried two, but may now. Too thick for my connectors however?
|
|
I have my dream speaker that I thought I could never afford. Great deal on them. Acoustic Zen Cresendo speakers. Ever since I heard them at Expona I was smitten. |
Ozzy, I know they are great, but for $50 you may prefer the Duelund DIY ic’s. Worth a try and based on my experience, considerable experience, you will be more than pleased.
Mikirob, did you mod your amp with the Blue or Green Arizona caps? Do you like them? Resolving? I am looking at them for a tube amp project.
|
Charles I moved to Nashville and lost my music room. My music room is now also our living room. My wife really disliked the look of the 40.1s and was fine with the Cresendo. She also likes the sound as we both heard them at a show together. She felt they were the best sounding speakers of the show! Anyway, I found a set for a great price and we both love them. She listens more with me now and not having a dedicated music room turned out to be a blessing. |
Jet, you will love the Duelund wire. Crazy good stuff. I use it in both my tube amps and as ICs. Speaker cables will be next! |
Rob, have you ever tried the WE 10 gauge as speaker cable? |
I love the Nashville area. Music never sounded better in my home! Going to lots of live music events here as we are surrounded by talent and venues.
|
Glad you like the power cables. I still love mine also. |
|
Strange as the WE10 gauge is the polar opposite of sizzle and sibilance in my rig. Smooth highs and tons of body. I don't terminate mine however. Just bare wire best. |
pc123v, Really not even close IMHO. The 16GA is far more extended and open. Far more transparent while retaining all of the wonderful musicality of the Belden. The Belden is good, but next to the Duelund it is rather too dark and muddy sounding. |
Unshielded with SWITCHCRAFT 3502AAU Rica connectors. This wire is not bright at all, but very natural and open. |
|
