Looking for more detail in a speaker

As they say, “it’s complicated.” The owner was using a Gryphon Diablo 300 amp, along with some high end speaker wires about 8ft run each. We were about 7-8’ feet from the 805’s. He was streaming through his Apple computer. Don’t know his preamp. I have a McIntosh MC152 amp, C48 preamp, a Mc MB 50 Steamer and a Technics 1200G table with Cadenza Black cart. I think that’s a decent enough system to squeeze some detail out of speakers. Just don’t know how much room dynamics factor with speakers like the GE’s. 

@b_limo thanks for the speaker recommendations. Would prefer to hear in person before buying but I’ll do some research determine if any of those are worthy of taking a chance. Your word ‘refinement’ nails what I’m looking for in my GE’s by making some adjustments or going with another speaker. To me, that’s what I liked hearing from the 805’s. 
@rego, you make a good point about the source and components. Not sure if the res of the file. Seems like he was using his Apple Music library but could have been something else. I did stream that song through Tidal in my system but wasn’t the same as the audition. 
@ebm Magico’s are out of reach at this point in my life. A local dealer who carries Magico’s also has Spendor A2’s and A3’s and Davone Twists that I could demo and closer to my budget. Any thoughts on those for more refined speakers than the GE’s? 

Thanks for all the feedback. Seems there’s a lot of emphasis on speaker placement and listening position. I would have to really think outside the box to change things in my listening room make some of the suggestions happen. I did tweak speaker position and moved about 10’ to listen to the GE’s but there really was no change in detail with the Sympathy  ‘reference’ track that put me on this journey. 
I did order the System Solution set up disc from Nordost. Maybe that will help. 
I tend to agree with Douglas in that the GE’s gravitate toward being a darker speaker. Never thought about it but think there’s something there. The lack of the separation I heard from the GE’s on the more delicate higher frequency instruments may be by design. The GE’s are fine speakers but hearing that detail in the 805’s got me excited about that type of presentation. 
There are plenty of options on the used market for my $4K target budget to try planar’s, horns or other some other design.  Any suggestions on speakers or placement tweaks continue to be appreciated. 

@bobinwi I’ll get some solid advice on room acoustics when my friend comes over to set up my TT. I was at Best Buy Magnolia recently and the rep said they offer a no cost estimate on room treatment service. They need to come to the house and do an assessment for the estimate. I’m giving that some thought now. Anybody use Magnolia for that service? 

I have what I’ll call a legacy audio dealer/audiophile coming by my house tomorrow to do me a favor and set up a Well Tempered Classic table for me. I told him about my speaker situation and room dynamics. He thinks the odd room layout may actually help the acoustics. He also said speaker placement and set up is critical. It’ll be interesting to get his take once he sees and hears everything. I like what @CD318 says about FR. need to study up on that more. I also think there’s something to low noise cabinet design for my listening room. I think I might benefit from having the sound project more toward me rather being more dispersed, which I think the GE’s are designed to do with their side drivers. @soix I’ll look into LSA’s. I don’t want to make a speaker change without hearing them in my room or at least in person somewhere. A 30 day trial is something to consider. 

@mijostyn, Others have suggested Maggie’s as something I might like. They pop up for sale fairly often in San Antonio and Austin. Available now is a pair of Martin Logan Vantage. How close would those get to the 3.7i’s in detail or resolution? They’re also active so bass wouldn’t be an issue. @rgs92 I’ll look into the Karma but have also been thinking about DACs options available other than what’s in my C48. Going down that route opens up a whole nother can of worms. I also listen to a lot of vinyl and the would have to sell my C48 to get a phono preamp. I like the functionality that the C48 offers but everything is on the table right now. @sounds_real_audio what high resolution speaker do you have in mind for around $4k or so? 

@redwoodaudio I have done some of that. I have an AQ Niagara 1200 along with a NRGZ cord from the outlet to the Niagara and an NRGZ from the Niagara to my amp. I also replace all applicable wall outlets with Pangea Audio Premier outlets. So, I have a foundation for cleaner power and want to do even more which is why I’d like to keep my speaker budget in check. @diamonddupree thanks for the heads up on the 805’s for sale. I’ll check them out. @millercarbon it’s the lava lamp that makes that system 😎. 

@fatdaddy The 3.5’ wall angles up to 9’ and the tapers down to 8’ on the opposite wall. Th room is 13.5 wide and 26’ long. My listening position is about 20’ from the speakers. So, it’s not a traditional listen set up but what I have to work with for now. Whether I move on to other speakers or not, I’m going to bring someone in to help with room analysis and correction. From this post seems that’s going to help either way. I also agree with other opinions that the GE’s are not tuned to accentuate certain frequencies I’m seeking right now. I was fine with my GE’s but after hearing the B&W’s I felt like I’m missing something that I want from listening to music, so I’m going through a process to learn more. I wouldn’t say I’m looking for a speaker that provides for Uber-detail. However, I would like to hear music with a certain degree of instrument separation, as if you we’re listening live. I think a lot of us are looking for that. The question is what’s getting in the way of getting there. 

Breaking news. The owner of the 805’s I listened to is going to let me demo them at my house for a few days. Can’t get them till Sunday. That will answer a lot of questions about whether it’s my room, the speakers or maybe both. @chorus I hear what you’re saying about floor and stand mounts. His stand mounts sounded good in his room but do have concerns if stand mounts can hang in my space and told the owner as so much to manage expectations. Not too enthused about adding a sub. So, while it’s obvious I’m intrigued by the 805 sound, I’m also open to other options that make sense. Before the GE’s a had a pair of Cornwall’s I really enjoyed but wanted to try a “modern” speaker. A local audio store will let me demo the Forte III’s and those are in my price range. It’s been a while since I had horn speakers and can’t recall if they have the detail I’m seeking. 

@geof3 Yeah, I was surprised when I put a measuring tape to it. I’ve got furniture I the way that puts my listening chair at that distance. My sons used to use this room a lot but don’t any more so time to maybe get rid of some furniture and rearrange the space. The acoustic room analysis will probably force me to make some changes. 
@jp-2213 Could be the Gryphon is a better amp. And, could be the McIntosh isn’t a good match for the GE’s. The owner of the 805’s thinks they are on the brighter side but “the raw power of the McIntosh should tame it.” It’ll be nice to hear through my system if that’s the case. I did learn during the audition he was streaming songs through Tidal and his MYTEK Brooklyn. I think finding the right speakers for me is first on the list along with getting the room acoustics sorted out. IMO, tweaks with amps or cables, interconnects, etc. accentuate the fundamental sound of the speakers. @jaulbrich the 804’s might be an option if I like the 805’s in my system. The extra woofer in the 804’s might help in a room my size. 
Still thinking about the Dynaudio S5.4’s. Any thoughts on those? 

Thanks @nordicnorm! One of the legacy dealers of audiophile equipment in San Antonio came by earlier to try and set up my Well Tempered Classic ( this is a project and another interesting journey). After determining he needed more research to set up the WT he asked me to turn on my system so he could give it a listen. He didn’t knock the layout of the room but thought my speakers were too far apart and urged me to move up my listening position. He also thought my long speaker run were taking away some the dynamics. He said the speaker in my guitar amp and computer speakers could contribute to creating subtle distortion. Interesting. He also moved the GE’s further way from the wall and toed them more. I could hear the difference right away. We listened to Yes (CD) , Afro-American AllStars (HAPZ1 server) and the Stones Sympathy recording on vinyl. Everything sounded better. The guiro percussion instrument on Sympathy stood out more too. He liked the GE’s. Thought they were smooth. Not sure they’re better than the 805’s. Looking forward to doing a side by side. He also mentioned some about my McIntosh 152 amp that’s been brought up before. He says the frequency range is more conservative on McIntosh amps than other designs so that could indeed contribute to higher frequency instruments not popping like with other amps such as the Gryphon I heard the 805’s through. So, now I may be amp shopping too, lol. 

@loudspeaker77 is this the Sandy Gross? If so, cool. Thanks for chiming in. If not, that’s still some excellent info you passed along about the GE’s I’ve never had them toed in as you mentioned and will definitely experiment with that as well as finding a way to shorten the distance of my listening position. I have a way to eliminate about 15’ of speaker wire. Not sure how much it will help but part of the process. If not, I’ll have to figure out how to move the speakers to another position in my room to significantly shorten the wire and to afford an upgrade to a better quality. I agree with the active bass. Just turn it down if too bassy and it’s nice to have for making adjustments as needed. I’m not a speaker frequency expert but flatter does seem better for more flexibility and less listening fatigue. The search is one for a better DAC and do think that will help. If this is Sandy, let me know. You may know the person who came by my house to assess my system from the audiophile industry. 

Thanks everyone for their feedback; some really thoughtful comments. I’ve learned a lot during this process. Before this thread, I used to think my room is what it is but knew I wasn’t maximizing the potential of my components. I realize now I have to find solutions to the obstacles getting in the way of a next level audio experience. Going by Magnolia today to learn more about their room treatment service and probably schedule a consultation. They don’t sell anything that would improve my situation without improving the listening room itself, so not worried about this being a process to sell me audio equipment. 

@b_limo previously mentioned that I’m going to be able to audition the 805’s I heard I’m my home. Was going to do that tomorrow but need to push to next weekend. Before that will trim 15-20’ from my speaker wires. That should help a little.  It’ll be interesting to a/b the two speakers in my home. 
@loudspeaker77 aka Sandy, I did play around with more to-in with the GE’s and could hear a difference. Still need to experiment with placement but want to do so after trimming the speaker wire. Interestingly, I thought my vinyl playback sounded the best. I demoed the 805’s from a private seller. He used tidal through a MYTEK Brooklyn DAC. I stream through a McIntosh MB 50 through the DAC in my C 48. I have a Sony HAPZ1 for play back of my cached CD’s. I have to use the DAC on the Sony. This process is having me explore other options for my DAC, streamer and cd server. Not saying I’ll make a move but just want to open my mind to other possibilities. That said, I purchased a Jeff Rowland 112. I got a good deal on it and look forward to comparing it to my McIntosh 152. BTW, Sandy, the friend who’s trying to help me with my Well Tempered project is Mark Heaston. He used to co-own Concert Sound in San Antonio back in the day. Says he met you briefly at a couple of the trade shows. 

@pimbo why do you say that about the Dynaudio’s. Don’t know that much about them. These 5.4’s are about 18 years old. Please tell me more. Thx. 

Thanks for the input @dmbwires. That’s a pretty close “Apple to apples” comparison. I’ll listen to the original 805 D’s in my system this weekend but will keep the 805 D3s in mind as I heard those this past weekend. There’s a smaller Audio dealer in town that sells B&W’s who might let me audition the latest model in my home. 

Since my last post been doing a little tweaking with gear and such. Finally got around to rerouting my speaker wires which saved me 13’ with each run. In the process I learned one of the speaker wire arrows was pointing the wrong direction, lol. I think those changes made some Audible difference. The greatest benefit was hiding a bunch of unsightly speaker wire. I’m still about 18’ from the speakers and will have to live with that till I get new furniture for my room so I can move my listening chair up to about 10’. I can tell a slight difference in sound staging standing closer to the speakers so I think once I get them dialed in to a new listening position they will sound even better. Of course shortening the speaker wire run even more is important and still thinking how I can make that happen. 

There are some caveats to all this in that I introduced some new gear to my system. I picked up a Rowland 112 amp, an Audible Illusions L3A tube preamp and a pair of B&W 803 D2’s. I’ve been switching out my McIntosh 152 amp with the Rowland and my C48 preamp with Audible Illusions. The B&W’s are not as easy to move as the GE’s so they’ve stayed in the mix with the various amp and preamp combinations. I did a test with the Sympathy 4 Devil song that got me started on this exploration. The guiro percussion at the beginning was more prominent with the 803 D2’s than the GE’s but not like with the 805 D3’s I heard. So, the room, amp, interconnects, setup, etc. where I originally heard Sympathy obviously were a major factor. 
Another thing I noticed is that none of the speakers or equipment I’ve been trying absolutely blows each other away. I can hear differences but really nothing that says I can’t live without this or that component. At this point, I feel the GE’s and B&W’s are pretty close. I do think the B&W’s have a higher ceiling for audio potential with better placement, speaker wire and other tweaks to my system. I also like the musicality of the AI preamp but like the functionally of the C48. Everything is there with the C48 and does a very good job without having to add a DAC or phono stage. I thought I definitely liked the Rowland better but after putting the McIntosh back in, feels like an old friend. Obviously, I still haven’t drawn any firm conclusion other than attention to detail will create the detail one is seeking,  whatever that may be. 

The 803D2’s are an intriguing speaker that I purchased without a demo but had heard other B&W’s and took a flyer in them because I got a good deal and figured I could move them for same price if I didn’t like. Right now they are pretty close to sound as my Triton 1’s but in doing some research understand they like power. I was disappointed to learn that my McIntosh 152 is only 150 watts across all ohm taps. I have a Rowland 112 that I can get 275 watts tapped into 4 ohm. I’ll be trying that out today or tomorrow. On loan from my local Audio dealer I have a Rotel rb 1590, which is tops out at 350 watts per channel. So, it will be intersecting to hear the difference more juice makes with these speakers. 
This whole search for more detail brings me back to the importance amp selection  mentioned in this thread. I auditioned the 805 D’s through a Gryphon Diablo which is a 300 watt amp. So that, compared to all the other variables could be what makes the difference in the that quest for more detail, definition, soundstage, what ever you want to call it, especially with 800 series speakers. Seasoned audiophiles know this but a lot us on the learning curve may not fully appreciate the importance and think 150 watts should cover most applications.  My dealer also lent me a pair of Rocket 33 biwires to try as well and suspect that will help bring out the detail even more with these B&W’s.