Looking for... Integrated tube amp with phono

@elliottbnewcombjr

Umm, I already found 4 models that meet the power requirements.

New speaker shopping is way too much work; I really don’t have time for that. BTW, my current tube amp is 60wpc and I used to have a Rogue that was around 90. There are plenty available.

@noromance

That’s a good list, thanks. I’ve owned that same Vincent and a very similar Rogue, years ago.

I already considered that BAT and the Roger’s High Fidelity but neither can be had with a phono stage, from what I found. Same with PrimaLuna. 

@stereo5

I had a Rogue Tempest ii (90 wpc) about 8-9 years ago. It was decent, but I would want something completely different if I bought another Rogue. Just to change it up; I had no real issues with it (that I can remember).

@stereo5

If I had $40k in my amp budget, I surely wouldn't be buying an integrated amp. The L2i looks interesting, but I don't have a Vinnie Rossi budget, even for the L2i.

Thanks, I previously saw that Margules and had to look up the company. That’s the problem… resale. I don’t mind buying from a small company, but I worry about resale, especially non-domestic manufacturers.

Also, I question whether that would sound better than my Conrad Johnson separates.

So, the GSi75 is off my list (assuming I want an EQ option). I emailed ARC and asked if there was a way to connect one and they said “no” (other than between the source and the amp, which is not an option).

I looked closer at the Rogue and that is nicely upgraded from the one I owned. I asked them about adding an EQ and they can install a processor loop for $350. I think the lack of tone controls is why I sold my Tempest II years ago. Seems like a great amp for the money, but not sure it’s better than my CJ stuff. Especially the SS phono stage in the Rogue.

@doyle3433 

Right, but I've already owned a Rogue and I don't think it's in the same league as VAC (or, the CJ stuff I already own). I could be wrong, but I'm just guessing here.

@ghdprentice 

Thanks for the sanity check.

@ericgale

"Or just buy used and save yourself the anxiety over resale value."

The original post says I'm only looking for used.

As far as I know, Audionote doesn't make any high-powered integrated amps with a phono section.

I forgot to follow up on this... so, I asked for some very specific recommendations and then I went with something completely different.🙄

I was very close to buying the VAC Sigma 170i on eBay (it’s local to me, and surprisingly still for sale), but I couldn’t get motivated to pull the trigger. I decided to try a SS integrated amp. I know I didn’t like the last one I had (Denon PMA-2500ne), but this one is a bit higher on the food chain. I bought a Luxman L-509z (100v, from Japan).

What I like... MC onboard phono stage (no real adjustments to the MC settings, but it sounds decent), tone controls (!), loudness button (although I rarely use it), remote control (haven’t had one in years), and a decent headphone amp (I tried it and it sounds good enough for me, even if I never use it), and the build quality is top-notch. It sounds... pretty good. In retrospect, had I known what it sounded like, I’m not sure I would’ve bought it. Why? Because my old Conrad Johnson separates sounded "better". But, I definitely like all the features in one box and it’s really simple for my wife to use (this is a bigger factor than I’m letting on). I guess the only thing missing that the CJ had was that 3-dimensional "holographic" sound (I realize some of you are rolling your eyes right now😁). It’s just that one little thing, but I definitely notice every time I listen.

So, this thing probably won’t be an endgame piece for me, unfortunately. I don’t fully regret buying it (I still have my CJ separates, so I could sell this and move on, but I don’t know what I want exists in my price range). Maybe a Mcintosh MA12000, but that’s beyond my budget (and I have no need for that much power, either).

Seems your sonic preference leans towards tubes.

Definintely. The Luxman is, by far, the best transistor amp I've ever owned... I was curious to see/hear what a "decent" SS would be like.

I looked at Accuphase (not class A- too expensive, not enough power) and the used ones I saw seemed pretty similar to Luxmans, but they cost more and often didn't have the phono adapter, which are very expensive to add).

Seems like a sideways move.

Also, my priority for having a DAC is much lower than in my OP. I haven't even connected my Bluesound because I need longer interconnects and haven't bothered shopping for any.

I actually turn the treble almost to the max setting and the bass is pretty close, too. I did the same with the CJ setup, except that I had to use an EQ, because there were no tone controls. Granted, I have hearing loss from decades of too-loud music, but I've always liked a lot of treble and bass, since I was a kid. I only listen to rock (or metal)... Black Sabbath-y stuff, if that makes a difference.

Really, the only thing the Luxman is missing is the echo-type midrange I've gotten with all my tube amps. I know a lot of people around here like "flat" music, but I don't enjoy that at all.

Ok, so this is turning more into a blog than what I originally intended, but today I decided to connect my CJ PV10B as a phono amp to my Luxman. Keep in mind, the phono stage on the CJ is for MM only and my LOMC Denon DL-301mkii has an output of only .4mV. So, I was surprised/happy (and disappointed)... this setup actually sounds better than the Luxman phono stage. The CJ isn't even an expensive model (I've got it for sale at $1100 and no takers). I have the CJ volume maxed-out (I tried using the tape monitor connections but it was a little too quiet). There's no noise, very little distortion, and I've got some of that magic back. I don't know if the phono stage on the CJ is extremely good for the price (I have a feeling it is), or if my cartridge really doesn't require a moving coil phono stage. 

So, I guess I'm going to buy a cheap (less than $2k) MC phono amp and see what happens. I'm bummed because I really wanted to get a single box to "do it all", and if I were using a $10k phono amp, I would understand the results. But the fact that the CJ phono stage probably costs less than what's inside my Luxman... well, that kinda bums me out.

Now I need to see what a dedicated phono amp will do (but, at under $2k used, I doubt it will be much, if any, better than the Conrad Johnson).

A bit rare/ tough to get a good sonic quality built-in phono stage in both integrated SS or tube that would match the rest of your system.  Likely the built-in would be a sonic bottleneck.  

Right, I understand as I've owned integrateds and separates. BUT, the phono stage I like is not a separate phono stage... it's just a little section of the CJ linestage. And that CJ model is pretty cheap.  The Luxman does have a discreet phono amp built-in with both MC & MM, which is impressive for an integrated. Granted, it's their TOTL. Also, I could only find positive comments online regarding Luxman's phono amp on the L-509z, although I realize those are just people's opinions.

I ordered an EAT E-Glo Petit because it had an easy return policy and bought an old Fosgate Signature Phono preamp (v1). The EAT arrived first and it sounded ok... better (to me) than the Luxman SS phono stage. I played it for a few days, and although it might not have been broken in, I knew it wasn't going to compete with the Fosgate as soon as I heard it. This thing works really well with my SS amp.

This should hold me for a while (famous last words😂).