looking for best isolation platform for CD player


Looking for best isolation platform for High End CDP , Linn / Audio Aero Capital/ Ensemble new cdp out next few weeks / not sure yet what I'm getting. Using XA7ES right now.

I have a stand now ( Atlantis ) and looking at audio points /silent feet, not quite sure if these are the right ideal or is there a perfect platform specialy for CDP .

Note: just bought Sistrum SP1 for my amp should be here next week.
proy

Showing 6 responses by jsl

I saw my name used in the thread and thought I should craft some sort of response for anyone reading this. Tom (Theaudiotweak) is trying to help evryone understand how difficult it is to isolate audio components. The environment of a listening room is incredibly harsh. He is speaking the truth when he says that there is nothing onthe market that can do it.

Tom, however, is not aware that it has recently been done and there is something that works. I build it and I know intimately that it works. This should be a pleasant surprise.

I'm Joe Lavrencik. I've been referred to in the thread.

I don't want to monoppolize a discussion, but if there were any questions I could answer I would be happy to do so.
I hope this helps......... The white paper. I'm not sure if the tables will transmit properly. Let me know if you have any questions:

High performance custom-made isolation systems are available for your audio components. Custom-made isolation systems are calibrated to the weight and dimensions of your component and customized to your home or system décor.

The floor is where the battle begins! Speakers are powerful machines. At normal listening levels, the floor, walls and ceiling of a listening room vibrate from the amplitude of compression and rarefaction waves generated by speakers. Walls and ceilings are ultimately coupled to the floor and the floor shakes as your speakers do their work. And, the air is filled with the same energy! And we love it! Visceral room responses are basic to the pleasure of music. And we hate it! Room response degrades component performance. In fact, a vibrating room is a very harsh environment for audio components.

There have been increasing references to the virtues of 3hz natural frequency isolation systems appearing in reviews in Stereophile magazine. TAS recently featured a $3900 3hz component isolation system in its New Products section. Stereophile sites the legendary Rockport Sirius III and the new SME 30/2 turntables as benchmarks for attaining the 3hz objective. Reviewers extol the sonic benefits of 3hz isolation devices, but unfortunately most are very expensive.

With guidance from Engineers, 3 different isolation systems adaptable to a broad range of components were developed for audiophile use. These isolation systems have a natural frequency of 10hz, 5hz, and sub-3hz. A patent filing is in preparation.

If you’re like me, the first question you’d ask is “What’s so special about a natural frequency of 10hz or 5hz or sub-3hz? My system only goes down to Xhz and no one can hear that low anyway. What does this do for me? And by the way, I already have a stand and enough shelves and pucks and bearings and pads and rounds and half rounds to stop an earthquake.”

Let’s define terms in a way that is easier to communicate concepts. Isolate a component means to neutralize the degrading effects of vibrations that flow from the floor into the component. Damp a component means to neutralize the degrading effects of air-born vibrations and other internal vibrations by transferring vibration from the component into the isolation stand. Natural Frequency is any frequency at which a system actually amplifies the amount of vibration coming into it. Another expression for natural frequency is resonant frequency. All objects have a resonant frequency or set of frequencies at which they vibrate. When vibration is introduced into an object at its resonant frequency, the result is a larger vibration. Regardless of the vibrating system, if resonance occurs, a larger vibration results. So when vibration in the floor or the air reaches the resonant frequency of a shelf, puck, stand, bearing, pad, round or half round the vibration is amplified in intensity and transferred into the component. When vibration in the floor or the air reaches the resonant frequency of a component, its chassis or any of its parts, the same effect occurs. So, in a sense, audio components play into the room and then the room plays back into the audio components. System set-up is more than location and stacking components on a rack.

Vibration causes errors in the time domain that translate into smearing, bloat, loss of ambient room information, harshness, edge and a very audible loss of musicality. The difference between a component that is isolated and the same component not isolated can be breathtaking in a well-executed audio system.

What does a well-executed isolation system do for me? A well-executed isolation system does one thing and only one thing. It allows the component to perform at its optimal level by neutralizing the degrading affects of vibration. Audio components have a distinctive DNA engineered into them. The DNA is what we love and the DNA must remain pristine. A well-executed isolation system allows the component’s natural DNA to come through. It is neither additive nor subtractive. It allows the component to perform at its optimal level by neutralizing the degrading affects of vibration. Properly isolated, the harsh stress of vibration is removed from the component, but left in the floor, ceiling, walls and air for you to enjoy!

A reference to Xhz of isolation refers to the system’s natural frequency. The natural frequency of the isolation system determines the amount of floor-born ENERGY that gets eliminated from contact with the component being isolated. If your floor is shaking from a 30hertz tone, a well-executed 10hz isolation system (natural frequency of 10hz) will remove about 75% of the vibration before it gets to the component! A well-executed 5hz system (natural frequency of 5hz) will remove about 94% of the vibration before it gets to the component! A well-executed 3hz system (natural frequency of 3hz) will remove about 97% of the vibration before it gets to the component! These differences are audible, but dependent upon the low frequency extension of the system as you will see.

The percentages you just read describe the transmissibility of the isolation system. Transmissibility is defined as the ratio of the response amplitude (strength of the energy) transmitted through the system into the component, to the excitation amplitude (strength of the energy) in the floor. Lowering the natural frequency of the isolation system lowers the transmissibility of the isolation system and therefore lowers the amount of floor-born vibration reaching the component.

Which natural frequency is low enough? That’s a great question and the answer depends on the systems’ ability to isolate and damp the component. We are programmed to believe that audio requires the best of everything. The best OFC wire, the best capacitors, the best resistors, the best AC outlets, the best room treatment. Much of the time this is true, but in isolation it is not true. Thankfully, electron microscopes and other sensitive scientific and medical equipment require incredibly expensive isolation systems more so than audio components. Sensitive scientific and medical equipment can be affected by the earth’s rotation, road traffic and building movements caused by high wind. Fortunately for audiophiles, our life only gets exciting at 20hz because this is just about the lowest hertz level at which our equipment can shake the floor and the air. The table below shows the attenuation of vibration at various frequencies. Notice how the transmissibility of vibration rises and falls around the natural frequency of a 40hz, 30hz and 25hz system. Notice also that if your speakers go down to 40hz, an isolation system with a natural frequency of 10hz is very effective.

Below is a table* that gives the approximate ratio (expressed as percentages) of the response amplitude (intensity of the energy) transmitted from the isolation system into the component, to the excitation amplitude (intensity of the energy) in the floor for isolation systems of various natural frequencies.

---------------------Lowest Hertz Level of Your System----------------------
20hz 25hz 30hz 35hz 40hz 45hz 50hz 100hz
Natural Frequency
40hz 135% 156% 176% 208% 225% 207% 183% 42%
30hz 160% 193% 207% 183% 140% 105% 87% 24%
25hz 174% 200% 190% 139% 102% 77% 64% 19%
10hz 54% 33% 25% 18% 14% 12% 10% 4%
5hz 12% 8% 6% 5% 4% 3% 2.5% .09%
3hz 5% 3% 2.5% 2% 1.5% 1.2% 1.1% .04%
-----------------------------------% Transmission-----------------------------------
*Isolation system designs differ. The percentages above are approximate values and may not apply to all systems.

You can see that an isolation system with a natural frequency of 40hz, 30hz or 25hz actually amplifies floor born vibrations and passes it to the component as frequencies in the floor approach the natural frequency of the system. This is a good example of why isolation systems with low natural frequencies are a must.

How does damping work and why is it important? When we talk about damping we turn our attention from vibration in the floor to vibration in the air striking the component and vibration inherent to the component. A well-executed isolation system should have a high damping coefficient. High damping coefficient means vibrations in the air striking the component get absorbed downward into the isolation system rather than absorbed into the component. It is important to understand that the top plate of the isolation system receives the damping treatment. The component rests on a surface with a high damping coefficient designed to drain vibration from the component like a drain empties a sink. The highly damped top plate of the isolation system draws vibration energy from the component because it is vibrating much less than the component. When a vibrating component is coupled to a mass that isn’t vibrating, energy transfers into the non-vibrating mass to equilibrium. In a well-executed isolation system, equilibrium is never achieved, as the top plate drains vibration faster than the component can provide vibration.

Some systems can isolate but not damp and the vibration in the component remains trapped in the component. A system can rightly purport to have a low natural frequency, but provide only a small sonic improvement because of poor damping qualities. Together, well-executed isolation and damping allows the component to perform at its optimal level.

There is, however, one part of an isolation system where a low damping coefficient is preferable. Low damping coefficient means that a portion of vibrations is turned back in the direction of the floor. This part is the feet of the stand, which are made of grade 5 Titanium. Grade 5 Titanium is RF and EM impervious, and possesses high elasticity and a low damping coefficient. Grade 5 Titanium is used in military and aerospace applications.

Can I use a combination of shelf, cones, pucks, points, rounds and/or half-rounds to eliminate vibration? This approach to isolation and damping rests upon the premise that you can reach sonic Nirvana through a multiplicity of compounding errors. Most audiophiles, given the choice, would not select this approach when modifying or upgrading audio components. With isolation systems, however, we have not previously been given the choice.

The answer is no. This approach, however, is well worth addressing as it embodies the cornerstone of many isolation and damping device providers. The vast majority of isolation systems, shelves, pucks, cones, points, rounds and half-rounds on the market today, like the vast majority of audio components on the market today, are built to fit a price point. Performance is sacrificed for aesthetics, cost and the ease of mass production. In the absence of a solution, band-aid approaches with conjectural theories are prone to fill the void. Unfortunately, audio has been inculcated with non-solutions for such a long period of time that conjecture has become accepted as “fact” or “the best thinking possible today”.

Many band-aid solutions on the market today have a natural frequency that will amplify vibration in your components at one or more frequencies. Moreover, most sellers of band-aid solutions have no idea of the natural frequency(s) of the products they are selling. One of the reasons is that the natural frequency of the products they sell is dependent upon the mass of the component placed upon them.

Isolation systems work best when they are customized. In fact, an isolation system MUST be calibrated to the weight and dimensions of the component to function at its optimal level. Failure to calibrate the system to the component’s weight and dimensions diminishes the effectiveness of the system by raising the natural frequency and allowing more vibration to pass to the component, or by over-loading the system and causing damage. The result is the component will not function at its optimal level of performance. Imagine investing in a parachute that doesn’t fully open. Imagine investing in a car with 3 wheels. Imagine investing in a house without windows. In each example, the product is less effective than a product operating at its optimal level of performance. Isolation is weight specific and this detail is omitted from most audio discourse.

Below is a table* that compares the approximate ratio (expressed as percentages) of the response amplitude of two isolation systems with a natural frequency of 10 hertz. The isolation system on the top line is fully calibrated to the weight of a 64lb component. The isolation system on the second line is calibrated to a component 20lbs heavier.

---------------------Lowest Hertz Level of Your System----------------------
% Transmission 20hz 25hz 30hz 35hz 40hz 45hz 50hz 100hz
10hz (Calibrated) 54% 33% 25% 18% 14% 12% 10% 4%
10h (Not Calibrated) 84% 49% 37% 26% 20% 16% 14% 5%
Diff + / (-) -30% -16% -12% -8% -6% -4% -4% -1%
*Isolation system designs differ. The percentages above are approximate values and may not apply to all systems.

The chart shows that calibration is very important. The performance of an isolation system constructed without concern for natural frequency is unpredictable and may be much worse than no system at all! Material, stands or systems with high natural frequencies can actually amplify the energy in the floor at multiple frequencies and pass it directly into the component. For example, a component isolation shelf made of wooden No.2 pencils will tend to amplify vibrations at 197hz, 211hz, 217hz, 219hz, 287hz, 311hz, 329hz, 399hz, 407hz etc. Not very good for audio!

You will notice that the above charts stop at 100hz. The reason is that the battle for isolation is fought at low frequencies. A well-executed isolation system that stops low frequencies from passing to the component stops high frequencies even better. Every frequency in the floor can be expressed as a ratio to the system’s natural frequency. A well-executed isolation system with a natural frequency of 10hz has a frequency ratio of about 2.93 to a 30hertz frequency in the floor. The same isolation system has a frequency ratio of about 9.78 to a 100hertz frequency in the floor. The higher the isolation system’s frequency ratio to the frequencies in the floor, the better the isolation and as you have seen, the frequency ratio increases as the frequencies in the floor go up.

But beware! Every frequency in the air can be expressed as a ratio to the natural frequency of the top plate material upon which the component is resting. The damping coefficient of the top plate material determines if air-born vibration is trapped in the component, or drained from it. In a well-executed isolation system, the top plate of the isolation system draws vibration energy from the component because it is vibrating much less than the component over a very broad frequency spectrum. When a vibrating component is coupled to a non-reflective mass that isn’t vibrating, energy transfers into the non-vibrating mass to equilibrium. In a well-executed isolation system, equilibrium is never achieved, as the top plate drains vibration faster than the component can provide vibration.

Tailoring the size of the isolation system to the component is important for damping and it saves space and it makes the isolation system more pleasing to the eye. Exposed surfaces receive and transmit vibration. Isolation systems that are tailored to the dimensions of the component have less exposed surface area on the top plate to absorb air born vibration. This helps keep the top plate of the isolation system “quiet” and allows it to absorb vibration from the component.

Who should be interested in custom isolation systems? Any audiophile who is fairly settled in on the components that they wish to keep in their system should consider a custom isolation system.

Which components should I isolate? It makes good sense to start with the source component. But, it is be a startling revelation to hear the extent to which amplifiers, preamps, phonostages and power supplies benefit from isolation and damping. Well-executed isolation and damping systems allow each component to perform at its optimal level by neutralizing the degrading affects of vibration.

If you would like to hear what isolation systems do in your audio system a demo can be arranged.

How does it work:

The principles outlined in the white paper are strictly adhered to. I hope it's acceptable for me to say that the workings are proprietary.

How much does it cost:

I'm concerned that answering that would turn a discussion into a sales pitch. But I will answer the question as posed. So if an answer to the question would offend a reader stop now..........

What I do isn't for everybody. If you like to swap out equipment, I'm not your guy. I do custom applications.

Having said that, if it's a piece of equipment that really pleases you and we both agree that what I do is what you want, $850. That's the price for my best work, custom-made for your equipment. Lesser performance costs less. I do all my work with Oak, Walnut and Maple frames. You pick the color stain. The walnut can be "ebonized" into high-gloss black. No metals.

I'm not a mass-producer. I work one-on-one with audiophiles and that takes time and good communication.

Let's agree not to talk about prices further out of respect for the thread.

Thanks

Joe
I absolutely have nothing to do with Sistrum and have never heard of it before today.

I posted the white paper because I thought it would help.

There is nothing more to it than that.

Joe
I saw my name mentioned in the thread again and thought I would add a few remarks on 2 subjects:

1) I fully support the advancement of audio and support the comparison of components as a means of advancement. Tom invited me to Louisville to compare my stand to the Sistrum. This is a wonderful opportunity to learn. My stands are calibrated to the components that rest upon them. The Sistrum is not calibrated to the component. I suggested Tom bring a stand to Chicago. This may not be practical for Tom and if we are unable to compare stands, it is no reflection on the products or us. This brings me to my second point,
2) Well-executed isolation systems have existed in audio for years. Unfortunately, they have been held captive inside stratospherically priced components. Some of the vibration reduction solutions marketed at various price points shouldn't claim to isolate. Such claims cause discontent and disappointment. You can see this in the emotions in the thread. Recently, things changed. The white paper I offered is accurate. The solution is executable.

Thanks for your consideration.

Keep the faith

Joe