Looking for an integrated tube amp under $2500

@3

I saw this unit for sale also. I contacted the seller concerning the age of the unit or a serial number but I haven't heard back from him. I'm also considering a Rogue Cronus Magnum.

@newbee

The distance between shelves is around 8-1/2 inches plus it’s open on all sides. My previous amp was around 7” so that’s why I stated no more than 7”.

@yogiboy

My previous amp was a PL DP

@jburidan 

Here's the scoop, I own a hybrid, the BAT 3000SE. I bought it used after selling the PL and wanted to try out a hybrid. It's a great sounding amp, very detailed and dynamic but I still prefer the lushness and sound stage of an all tube amp. Even with tubes in the preamp stage it's still a SS amp. 

@alucard

I considered the nighthawk and spoke to one of the owners. My problem is that I prefer it come in black to match my other components.

@wsrrsw 

As I stated above the space between shelves is 8-1/2" and it's open on all sides plus my Dialogue Premium was there for 4 years.

Thanks for all your recommendations.

@tlong1958

Good point to consider!

The first time had to do with a short, the second time I’m not sure but the last time was a blown auto bias board. One of the power tubes was receiving 3 times the normal mv. Kevin questioned me why I was using KT77 tubes since he felt they can become unstable. The irony is he sold them to me!

@timo62 

My preferred tubes were the KT77 and Cifte 12AU7. My local dealer is allowing me to demo the Rogue at home today so it should give me a good idea concerning the sound. I also called Rogue concerning using other power tubes and stated I could use KT77 tubes by reducing the bias to 30 instead of 35. They recommended I experiment with the 1 preamp 12AU7 tube before rolling any power tubes. The only tubes they don’t recommend are the EL34 or KT150.

@dweller 

I thought of buying a used BAT VK55 from a close friend here audiogon recently. The problem is my unit/ tv stand isn’t large enough to accommodate it. I owned separates years ago and prefer the convenience of an integrated amp with less cables!

This afternoon I brought home a Rogue Cronus Magnum 3 from a local dealer to demo over the weekend. After a 1/2 hour warm up, I played the same music I had listened earlier on the BAT. Here are my initial impressions:

-the soundstage is bit larger
-the music is a bit forward as if I’m sitting a few rows closer
-a bit more lush and fuller
-bass not as tight but still good
-the treble was a bit harsher and not as clear

So I checked the tube bias. One tube was at 34mv, the other at 36 so I adjusted both to the correct 35mv. The dealer suggested I try the 4 ohm tap as well as the 8 ohm. I removed the top plate and made the necessary wire adjustments. It sounds better on the 4 ohm tap as it did on the Primaluna. 

Overall it it sounds a little better especially the treble. I emailed a fellow audiogon member who is selling his Rogue and suggested using a Cifte 12AU7 as the preamp tube. I used Cifte tubes in my PL and thought they were smoother than other various NOS tubes I had tried.  So I’m hoping a Cifte or another NOS tube will do the trick. 

As as someone mentioned above, there is a musical difference between KT120 and EL34 tubes. I did prefer KT77/EL34 type tubes than either KT88 or 120 in my Primaluna. 

After 45 years it’s like starting all over again, comparing amps and then rolling in different tubes. Tomorrow’s a new day so I’ll start fresh and decide whether it’s worth investing in tubes again or keep the well made and nice sounding BAT amp and call it day.

Thanks for all your suggestions and recommendations. 

@ghasley

Thank you for the info concerning the fans. I imagine they are quiet since they are designed especially for audio type equipment.

To all

I returned the Magnum 3 to my dealer after the home demo. I mentioned I didn't care much for the KT120 tubes and preferred the GL KT77 in my previous Primaluna. It so happened he had used KT77 tubes in store and replaced the KT120 then adjusted the bias per the manufacturer. Wow! The midrange bloomed, the brightness became smoother and voices became more organic. Not only was I surprised but also dealer and another customer plus we all came to the same conclusions. So I ordered the amp with KT77 tubes instead of the KT120. Once I receive the amp, I will then consider using an NOS 12AU7 preamp tube. 

@alucard19 

I appreciate the suggestion but used various power tubes prior and still love the warm organic sound of KT77. From what I read the KT90 does not fit my bill. 

@rbstehno 

I owned a H300 prior to the Primaluna. Nice sounding amp but once I heard tubes in my system it was no going back to a SS amp.

@timo62 

Thank you for your congrats. If the Rogue with the KT77 sounds as good as it did at the dealer I’ll be very happy. Hopefully with the addition of the NOS Mullard in the preamp stage I should obtain the sound I’m looking for. 

I did look into the Raven and Quicksilver integrated amps but they only come in Silver. I’m also surprised the QS does not come with a remote. I’m always adjusting the volume especially playing a mixed bag of music from my server. 

@iopscrl

My room is not large at 13x18x6.5 plus I sit around 7’ from the speakers. I used the 34w Primaluna with no power problems.

@helomech and gillatgh

I contacted Brent Jessee and he recommended a NOS Mullard based on my preferences. 

helomech

Thanks for the recommendations and I will consider if the Mullards don't work out.

I called Rogue for an update and the amp should be ready by the end of next week. They plan to install the KT77 and test the amp for 24 hours to ensure there are no problems before shipping. I also ask to have the 4 ohm taps connected prior since it sounded best when I demoed at home. They also answered my many questions on the phone. It's nice dealing with an American company that you can call anytime and they will immediately answer your questions.