Listener fatigue: what does it really mean?


Okay, so I used to think that listener fatigue meant that your ears just kind of got tired from listening to speakers that were overly bright. I don't have a good understanding of the make up of an ear, but I believe there are muscles in an ear that, I guess, expand and contract while we listen to music and I figured that's what it meant to have listener fatigue. Now, I'm thinking that listener fatigue is maybe more than your ears just getting tired but actually, your whole body getting tired and feeling drained. I experienced this time and time again listening to my paradigm studio's. They are somewhat bright and provide quite a bit of detail in my oppinion, so I'm wondering if, since there was such a great amount of detail coming through, that it was physically draining because I'm sitting there analyzing everything that's coming through the speakers. I would wake up and first thing in the morning, grab a cup of coffee and start listening to music (my daily routine) and 20-30 minutes later start nodding off and I couldn't figure out what was going on. I've been sitting here this morning listening to my new vandersteen's for two hours and can't get enough. I feel like I could listen all day and that I'm almost energized from listening vs. drained.

Soooo, what are your oppinions about what listener fatigue is and why it's caused?
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Showing 14 responses by csontos

Over drive your amp even just a little bit and those low distortion figures will increase exponentially in some cases. In any case it's going to be distortion that causes fatigue. Usually when it's turned up loud. Odd order harmonics and IMD typically.
Whoa! How about analyzing lack of fatigue. What's going on when there isn't any? Or any tweaks, conditioners, regenerators, Mu-Metal, wires and cables costing as much or more than the gear itself? Must be deafness.
What technique? All you've done so far is ruminate about loudspeaker dynamics. Are you aware that what you refer to as sonic energy is what is "caused" by the physical energy of a speaker driver? And that the level of sonic energy present is commensurate with the level of physical movement/energy the driver is directly tasked with? It's a well known fact that speakers vary in speed and efficiency. The faster the better which is the most important aspect of sensitivity imo. Getting loud quickly is a skewed perception that doesn't speak to performance at all. So what are you telling us we don't already know?
I believe the ceiling is around 150 watts into any load.

Charles, playback distortion in a component has nothing to do with the original unrecorded source. The job of the play back system is to reproduce as faithfully as possible what was actually recorded, distortion and all. But you knew that:)
B, anyone who thinks they can't have serious detail and musicality at the same time is at the very least, confused. Do you really think moving up the HI-FI scale doesn't include an escalation in detail? They absolutely do go hand in hand. If it's not musical, then performance is lacking. Having to "imagine" lost detail has to be the most fatiguing circumstance of all. Cold clinical detail is typically a result of huge amounts of NFB applied in order to reduce distortion. You definitely can have your cake and eat it too. You just have to find the right one. Cost is not a factor either. Imo, the word 'warm' should be forever banned from audiophile circles. You go from 'cold' to 'natural'. Warm is not desirable.
Well that statement sheds some light on some of you guys' expectations. Free yourself indeed! What makes you think you can glean more out of a recording than what's there? It's only "information". Once you've retrieved it, it's all there is and there ain't no more. The secret is knowing when you've gotten it all. And it is possible to know. You poor sods. No wonder you're spending more on wires and cables than gear.
Again, what are we...chopped liver???

BTW, well said, Ralph. However, harmonics of all sorts exist as you inferred whether they're distorted or not and therefore are included in any recording, are they not? So isn't it the degree of odd ordered harmonic 'distortion' a particular amp exhibits which is the significant factor in determining or confirming how pleasant or irritating the sound may end up being? And therefore whether those harmonics are being produced cleanly. Serious question with respect.
Ralph, I gotta hear you tell me it's possible that odd ordered harmonic distortion in an ss amp can be low enough to render it inaudible with or without NFB. Please tell me it's so. I don't wanna buy a tube amp:)
But what about 'bridged' amps? An issue I have just brought up on another thread in an unrelated? issue, 2nd order harmonics being cancelled out.
Ralph, I'm wondering if you've come across Susan Parker's 'Zeus' zero feedback impedance amplifier? I'd love to hear your thoughts on her design. She's had a following on DIY since she posted it in 2004. "Straight wire with gain", either tube or ss.
The system is stupid. It doesn't know how to do anything but play back the recording. Ralph was referring to an apparent sonic enhancement caused by the gear.
Yes, sometimes. Fatigue has more than one definition. Distortion is clearly the prominent one, with you also. Where's the dilemma? You're aware of both kinds. Either one calls for an upgrade, no?