Linn LP12 turntable

Glad that we’re all friends again.

Sorry, if my light hearted banter muddied a serious topic.

Any misunderstandings here are trivial compared to the anger about Linn on other forums. You need a thick skin to post about the LP12 there.

@signaforce

I see you’re thinking about changing to a piano black plinth.

My wife insisted I do that last year because she doesn’t like the retro look of the fluted rosewood. It didn’t make any difference to the sound, but it sure looks good. I can post before and after photos if they are any help.

There’s an argument to be made that it would be better to keep the money to spend on upgrades that do improve the sound quality.

However, there is another option that my dealer didn’t tell me about until it was too late. You could get an old plinth sprayed with piano black lacquer. That may necessitate acquiring a second hand non-fluted plinth, but should still work out cheaper than ordering a new one from Linn. You may find that your dealer has a suitable old plinth lying around gathering dust.

@signaforce

Here are the before and after photos.

https://i.postimg.cc/Bn9jHG7v/IMG-0249.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/43Xn2Qgk/IMG-4074.jpg

On the subject of plinths, Linn have just launched the Bedrok from their LP12-50 for all LP12s. It’s now available for a mere £8,750.

By the way, the LP12s with conversion from analogue to digital sound amazing. That’s because they significantly reduce the distortion, noise and interference that arises in analogue RIAA processing, pre-amplifiers and potentially crossovers.

@mylogic

That’s how I got my LP12 last year. Considerably less expensive than buying new for full retail price, but still unlikely to ever be profitable.

@daveyf 

I usually agree with your posts, but you're wrong about analogue to digital conversion being less than ideal.

The Urika II in conjunction with a Klimax DSM sounds a lot better than the original Urika with a Klimax Kontrol. 

@daveyf

I don’t doubt that there are better phono stages than the Urika. In fact, it wouldn’t be at all surprising if Linn were to upgrade the analogue amplification part of their phono stages along with the Ekos SE as you suggest. I recently heard someone from Linn say that they anticipate a series of LP12 related upgrades in future.

However, what they have clearly demonstated with the Urika II is that it is beneficial to carry out RIAA processing in the digital domain, particularly with the improved clock of the Klimax DSM/3. That’s basically the reason why I returned to vinyl after a break of five years.

Of course, whether the improvement from thus reducing noise, interference and distortion in the RIAA processing, pre-amplification and also potentially the crossovers with Exakt, not to mention Space Optimisation, is worth the lack of flexibility to use other manufacturers’ components is entirely a matter of personal preference.

@lewm 

It’s not just the plinth. There’s a new top plate attached. Presumably that contributes to the sound.

I was wondering if, given the huge number of LP12s out there, a company like Tangerine might market one. It would be interesting to see if it was as good and if they could make it cheaper. 

When I was last in business, we had a prospective competitor who spent a year or more telling all our customers that he’d soon be massively undercutting our prices. Guess what? When he finally opened for business, his product was inferior but his prices exactly matched ours.

@mylogic 

The Quadraspire was made out of a few spare bits left over from the main equipment racking. The wood clashed with the turntable plinth and some nearby shelving. I tried it with glass shelves, but they sounded terrible. Also, I didn’t like that the shelves dominated because they were bigger than the footprint of the LP12.

It was my decision to change the stand, although I think my wife approves. It was her who encouraged me to get another LP12 in the first place after I’d already decided it was too expensive. I am fortunate in that respect - she’s an amazingly generous and selfless woman. You wouldn’t believe the lengths she’s gone to for other people.

I wanted a NokTable, but that would have cost in the region of £1,000. As I’d already spent a lot on the turntable, that was far too much. I went for the much cheaper alternative of using an all metal Ikea Knarrevic bedside table customised with carpet spikes and self-adhesive car damping panels underneath the shelves. I couldn’t believe my luck to find something pretty well exactly the right size.

My dealer said metal shelves don’t usually sound good because they tend to resonate like glass. Fortunately, I seem to have got away with it. Perhaps, because it’s sited a long way from the loudspeakers.  One thing I can’t do is put the power supply on the bottom shelf. That kills the sound of the turntable.

@mylogic

Thank you for your kind comments.

My dealer is very knowledgeable about Linn matters and has been selling their products for decades. He is on Facebook every day advising people on Linn stuff old and new.

However, I am sure he’d never claim to omnipotent and there’s always room for individual preferences. I don’t know his views on wall shelves. I think he was just saying that a metal shelf might resonate.

On the other hand, my wife is omnipotent. I wouldn’t dare say otherwise :)

@ghdprentice 

I agree with your comments.

When you buy an LP12, it's wise to employ someone who knows how to set it up properly.

Maybe, there are some audiophiles who know what they're doing, but I'd never attempt to tinker with one. That is apart from putting it in place, setting the counterweight and bias and cleaning the stylus.

I set up every other aspect of my system, but never the LP12. In fact, my old dealer said that I was an unusual client. He did everything for most customers.

@mylogic 

My ex used to complain that I spent more a stylus than she would on an entire stereo. She'd be horrified to know I've now got a hifi system that's worth more than our cars were.

That may well have been a contributory factor to our split.

If I'd stayed with her, I'd be richer but not as happy.

@mylogic 

:)

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment

On the forum for my home town football club, we also have two opposing factions. They call each other the Happy Clappers and the Bed Wetters.

Those names kind of fit the Linn polarisation too :)

Audiophilia is a complex system. Every listener is different with different musical tastes and different gear in different environments. Taking the LP12 alone, there are a very many different permutations of components.

Like in politics, people demand simple responses to complex issues. They join cults and vote for bull in the china shop demagogues to get them. Like with getting Brexit done, you can see the appeal of just buying a Technics SL-1200 and forgetting about the turntable forever.

Yet, they can't just live and let live. It rankles them that a privileged minority might have found a better way. To justify their jealousy and anger, they resort to conspiracy theories about Linn "marketing'" built on myths and fables about Ivor forty or more years ago. Then, in the ultimate irony, they accuse the LP12 owners of being a cult.

Of course, first paragraph excluded, I'm not being entirely serious here. In reality, the LP12 is only a bloody turntable.

@signaforce

It’s a shame that you feel like that after people have genuinely tried to answer your original post. This isn't directly related to what's currently going on in the US.

@daveyf

I am glad to hear that someone shares my suspicion that there may be at least a small element of anti-Semitism behind the anti Linn sentiment that abounds online, particularly in the criticism of its founder’s activities decades ago. People who don't know the UK shouldn't dismiss this lightly. Especially in my youth here in the UK, I have heard anti-Semitic remarks many times. I have kept this suspicion to myself for many years for fear that it would open a can of worms. Thanks for having the courage to say it out loud, even if it offends the sensibilities of some.

I’ll try to get back on track with a summary of my thoughts on the turntable.

It is perfectly valid to suggest the LP12 might not be the best turntable option for everyone. For example, my grown up children all have ProJects because the LP12 was too expensive.

What we share is a love of vinyl records -- the choice of turntable is secondary. Some people may prefer the sound and looks of a Rega, a Technics or whatever.

Personally, I found that the LP12 had something special about its sound right from the word go. Also, its modular design enables future upgrades, if that’s the way the one is likely to go. You can be confident that Linn will be introducing more upgrades in future. The downside is that they are getting more expensive, but at least there’s a choice.

It’s all a matter of personal preference and tastes. In the UK, we are blessed with a good Linn dealer network. In other parts of the world, lack of service facilities may be a problem.

I regularly hear records on other turntables at a vinyl night in our local pub. Clearly, it does not always have to be an LP12 to enjoy vinyl.

@daveyf

Has the price of the LP12 really increased that much?

Yes, there have been upgrades that have added to the price, if buy them. You don’t need to though.

There’s lot of talk about it being expensive. But very little in the way of price comparisons with equivalent  turntables on a fair like for like basis.

I made a comparison of a Klimax LP12 with the Technics SL-1000R. Once you take the Linn cartridge, phono stage and Machined Radikal out of equation, the LP12 is actually much cheaper.

@lewm

It’s a case for the LP12 Radikal power supply that has been machined out of a solid block of aluminium. It matches other Klimax components in style. However, the considerably cheaper Standard or Akurate Radikal does exactly the same job. Linn never claimed there was any benefit to sound quality.

@daveyf

​​​​​​In essence, all you’re saying is that it’s complicated.

There’s a whole range of LP12s that can be compared with lots of other turntables.

Is the LP12 going to win out in every case? Of course, it can’t.

It all depends on what the person is looking for. For example, is there synergy with what you’ve already got? That was the case with me last year.

With such a variety of components, it’s always going to be possible to find one element to criticise. Everybody has their own bete noire.

My point was that quoting the high price of a brand new top of the range LP12 with cartridge, phono stage and all the bells and whistles to argue that the LP12 is expensive is a complete non sequitur. So what. Lots of hifi is expensive.

The fact is the basic cost of the LP12 hasn’t changed as much as some people try to make out.

All Linn has done is to try to compete in a more rarefied market as well. That doesn’t really affect current owners of the LP12 who have no desire to upgrade. It’s what Linn need to do to survive and prosper. I am not sure why so many people are getting their knickers in a twist about it.

@daveyf

Sorry, I don’t know enough about other high end turntables to comment on the Bedrok LP12’s ability to compete with them.

The one thing I would say is Linn  managed to sell a couple of hundred LP12-50s. That must amount to a few million pounds turnover.

Presumably, Linn have given the Bedrok careful thought. Perhaps, they think there’s enough people with Klimax LP12s who will upgrade to Bedrok to make it pay.

I must admit that if I had the money to spare, I’d at least consider Bedrok. As it is, the only way I could conceivably buy one would be second hand. Even then it is unlikely, but never say never.

@daveyf

Arms appear to be your particular bugbear. Other people may attach importance to other factors.

Clearly, the LP12 does compete in the marketplace. I took Robert's statement that it can hold its own to mean just that.

@daveyf

At present, I am enjoying vinyl so much that I can’t imagine needing any more upgrades.

Certainly not the two options that Linn are offering me, Exstatik and Bedrok. Those two would cost considerably more than I spent on acquiring and upgrading the turntable last year.

From here on in, it feels like the cost is out of all proportion to the benefits. Maybe, a replacement for the Ekos SE would change my mind, but at present I can’t see it because it would probably cost close to the Bedrok price.

Ironically, the Utopik upgrade that I might consider is not expected any time soon.

@daveyf

At the end of the day, it comes down to a tension between how much we value the benefit to sound quality and how deep our pockets are. I have long since come to the conclusion that there’s no need to be at the cutting edge all the time. That’s just as well because I can’t afford to keep up with Linn anyway.

For just a few weeks, I was fortunate to have Linn’s top LP12, bar the cartridge that is. I am not going to lose any sleep over Bedrok knocking me off the top of the heap. I knew it was coming before I bought my turntable. Maybe, I’ll be able to pick up a second hand Bedrok in a couple of years time, when the cost benefit analysis is more favourable. I can wait.